Daniel Peterson Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Arguing over how good a book is, is like arguing over the best shoe size.Which means that all books are equally good? Link to comment
Daniel Peterson Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Dan, Bill and Louise, the three mouthcateers, one for all and all for oneIs that a quotation from one of the epistles of the late Rev. Wesley P. Walters? Link to comment
Proverbs_28_1 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Read Grant Palmer's book, seekers of truth. It is really the definitive "Insiders View" That is why there are almost 3000 views on this topic - because it is scaring the _____ out of "professing" defenders of the faith.See now I was viewing it for a laugh. I always enjoy the witty responses of Dr. Peterson & Friends. Peace,Adam Link to comment
Daniel Peterson Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I just re-read through most of this thread. Summation:Grant Palmer has written an excellent book full of good information. He is a kind and gentle man whose work and intentions can be trusted.[edit] [edit] and [edit] Trust the Bible and the spirit of truth. Make Jesus your focus . . . like Grant Palmer decided to do after seeing the light.Read Grant Palmer's book, seekers of truth. It is really the definitive "Insiders View" That is why there are almost 3000 views on this topic - because it is scaring the _____ out of "professing" defenders of the faith.I dunno. I can't quite put my finger on it, but somehow it seems to me that Professor Sir Dr. Bammer's summary omits certain important nuances of the discussion on this thread. Maybe Professor Sir Dr. Bammer's "[edit] [edit] and [edit]" is supposed to cover those. If so, that doesn't seem quite adequate.Anyway, the excellent reviews of Palmer's book written by Ashurst-McGee, Bitton, Harper, and Midgley can be found in FARMS Review 15/2, accompanied by an official statement from the Joseph Fielding Smith Institute for Latter-day Saint History, and the excellent Allen review can be found in FARMS Review 16/1. Both issues of the FARMS Review are on line athttp://farms.byu.edu/publications/reviewmain.phpThis will probably induce poor Mal to go out once again and buy yet another copy of the book for the first time. Link to comment
Bill Hamblin Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 My Dear Professor Peterson,It simply won't do any good to suggest that anti-Mormons actually read something before they begin to opine. Rather like Canute trying to sweep back the tide.You must also always remember that Palmeris a kind and gentle man whose work and intentions can be trustedObviously quite the opposite of Mormons.You see, in matters of scholarship, intention is always everything; actual evidence and analysis counts for very little, really.SincerelyProfessor Hamblin Link to comment
kolobian Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 This thread has been entertaining, but I had a question reading this last exchange: If Prof. Hamblin is Darth Vader, who does that make Prof. Peterson? Link to comment
Confidential Informant Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 This thread has been entertaining, but I had a question reading this last exchange: If Prof. Hamblin is Darth Vader, who does that make Prof. Peterson? Emperor Palpatine?You know what the really crappy part of this answer is? The fact that I know the actual name of the Star War's emperor. That has got to mark me a some kind of nerd.C.I. Link to comment
bammer Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 Peterson wrote:Dear Professor Dr. Hamblin, Ph.D.:Bammer doesn't get the joke.Cordially,Professor Dr. Peterson, Ph.D.BAMMER Responds:The joke is very apparent. Link to comment
bammer Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 Bammer provides his own "Insider's View of Mormon Arrogance."HAMBLIN WROTE:My Dear Professor Peterson,Professor Bammer does not seem to realize that our occasional personal side-correspondence here on the FAIR Board is a literary jest designed to allow us to make ironic comments about some of the more nonsensical antics of anti-Mormons, in a rather pale imitation of Montesquieu Link to comment
Bill Hamblin Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 pompous, arrogant, and so full of the deeds of the flesh Link to comment
bammer Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 PROFESSOR HAMBLIN RESPONDS:But not quite; while it is possible I am guilty of a "tremendous intellect," as to status and wealth--surely he jests!BAMMER RE-EMPHASIZES:What "professors" call a joke they actually embrace with all their being, Latter-day Saints. Turn to the LORD today and from these icons of carnality. Link to comment
pseudogratix Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Because Latter-day Saints today are generally placed in positions of influence... More diversions by the author of this thread, but still not one simple example of the alleged deception on the behalf of FARMS in regard to the book in question.BTW, I find it so ironic that so many of these born again types insist that prophets/apostles ended with Christ and the original 12 (with the exception of Paul), but at the same time they set themselves (perhaps unintentionally) up as prophets (i.e., "God has shown me your evil ways. Repent and come unto Christ lest you be cast into hell.") Link to comment
Daniel Peterson Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 My Dear Professor Dr. Hamblin:I believe that the highly judgmental and condemnatory posts above were not written by the real Bammer, but by an ersatz Bammer, an impostor. They are extremely unlikely to have been composed by the real Bammer, who, just two days ago, posting under the title of SOME THOUGHTS BY BAMMER, quoted to us the words of Jesus:Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?I fear that something terrible may have happened to the real Bammer.In fact, a struggle may have been underway between Proto-Bammer and Deutero-Bammer from the very beginning of this thread, which, as you may recall, opens with the accusation that "FARMS and people like Daniel Peterson" are "professional deceivers in the employ of the Great Deceptor." If my supposition or proposal is correct, it is implausible to accept both the lofty sermon against judgmentalism and the wild negative judgments as, simultaneously, echte Bammer Worte ["authentic words of Bammer"]. It will take considerable text-critical analysis, I think, before we are able to separate the logoi of the historical Bammer from the interpolations of Pseudo-Bammer.Alternatively, of course, the struggle may be occurring within the soul of a single Bammer. (Let's call him Ur-Bammer.) For, even in the very post in which Good Bammer (Smeagol, Dr. Jekyll) admonishes us to be non-judgmental, Evil Bammer (Gollum, Mr. Hyde) immediately denounces us as "insidious," "sick, and full of "hate," while dismissing yet another poster as "vacuous."One might characterize this as the "Two-Bammers Hypothesis," or the "Dueling Bammers Theory," or, perhaps, as "A Tale of Two Bammers," and then differentiate according to whether the two Bammers are thought to be literally ontologically distinct, or merely psychologically separable.A promising research area, I think.Cordially,Professor PetersonIcon of CarnalityImp of the Great Deceptor Link to comment
Bill Hamblin Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 My Dear Professor Peterson,The deutero-Bammer theory is most promising. We should examine the entire corpus of Bammeriana for signs of the nefarious editorializing of psuedo-Bammer. Perhaps we should also form "The Bammer Seminar" where we can vote with little colored balls to definitively establish the words of the "Bammer of History" in contradistinction from the words of the "Bammer of Faith." Sincerely,Professor HamblinIcon of BanalityWhimp of the Great DeceptorPS I regret to inform you, despite pseudo-Bammer's claims, you are not my vision an icon of carnality. Link to comment
Daniel Peterson Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 I regret to inform you that, despite pseudo-Bammer's claims, you are not my vision of an icon of carnality.Dear Professor Hamblin:I am relieved to hear that. However, I've been obliged to start carrying a stick in order to fight off female groupies. It can be tiresome, but beating them away has also proven to be excellent aerobic exercise.Sincerely,Professor PetersonIcon of CarnalityImp of the Great Deceptor Link to comment
ScriptureLover Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Daniel Peterson - I am relieved to hear that. However, I've been obliged to start carrying a stick in order to fight off female groupies. It can be tiresome, but beating them away has also proven to be excellent aerobic exercise.My dear Professor Peterson,Would that the days of polygamy were still enforce...........this way, istead of beating off the female groupies, our Pseudo-Bammer could ask you the question "Have you stopped beating your wives yet?"Yours,ScriptureLover (the Student) Link to comment
bammer Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 MORMONS - LOOK!Take the time and read the words of these self-appointed LDS heroes of the internet - Professors Peterson and Hamblin. Then read between the lines. What is seen? Is it the humility of Jesus? At least the topic of Jesus or a reference to Him? Has there been any testimony of Jesus? How about some fear of God? Reverence for God? Genuine love for God's Word? Mention of the Bible? Quotes about loving our neighbors or turning the other cheek? THERE IS NOTHING OF THE SORT BECAUSE THESE MEN HAVE MADE THEIR PROFESSION - THEIR LIVELIHOOD - based on the coffers of the Church!Ask Peterson and Hamblin if the Church pays them. If your hard-earned tithing dollars have ever made it into their pockets. Though it seems like these men are just happily jesting, ask yourself two questions: WHY did this jesting begin? Why? And what is left of these men when the jesting ends? Is it more ponderous intellectualizing, more battles on other threads, more learning without ever coming to a knowledge of the truth? It is. Jesus is not a part nor parcel of their hearts. If He were, even amongst the jokes, they couldn't help bearing witness of Him. They haven't included Him because they can't. He hasn't a place in them. How sad and how sick.Run from these, Latter-day Saints, and give yourself a chance to know God outside of such arrogance.IJA,BAMMER Link to comment
pseudogratix Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 And yet more diversions by the author of this thread, but still not one simple example of the alleged deception on the behalf of FARMS in regard to the book in question. Link to comment
Calm Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Take the time and read the words of these self-appointed LDS heroes of the internet - Professors Peterson and Hamblin. Then read between the lines. What is seen?A great sense of humour, IMO. And a determination not to take offense because someone else takes themselves too seriously.WHY did this jesting begin? Because someone refused to deal with the material they offered in a serious manner instead of ridiculing it.I hope it occurs to you, bammer, that this is not the only life either of these men have. There is no reason why every minute of their existence needs to be spent in testimony bearing. Even Christ didn't live that way. There are places to bear testimonies. Having had the experience of being ridiculed for bearing a testimony of Christ on message boards, I am personally cautious about when and how I should share mine. There are many ways to take the Lord's name in vain and carelessness is one of those ways. Link to comment
Drevan Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 MORMONS - LOOK!Take the time and read the words of these self-appointed LDS heroes of the internet - Professors Peterson and Hamblin. Then read between the lines. What is seen? Is it the humility of Jesus? At least the topic of Jesus or a reference to Him? Has there been any testimony of Jesus? How about some fear of God? Reverence for God? Genuine love for God's Word? Mention of the Bible? Quotes about loving our neighbors or turning the other cheek? THERE IS NOTHING OF THE SORT BECAUSE THESE MEN HAVE MADE THEIR PROFESSION - THEIR LIVELIHOOD - based on the coffers of the Church!Ask Peterson and Hamblin if the Church pays them. If your hard-earned tithing dollars have ever made it into their pockets. Though it seems like these men are just happily jesting, ask yourself two questions: WHY did this jesting begin? Why? And what is left of these men when the jesting ends? Is it more ponderous intellectualizing, more battles on other threads, more learning without ever coming to a knowledge of the truth? It is. Jesus is not a part nor parcel of their hearts. If He were, even amongst the jokes, they couldn't help bearing witness of Him. They haven't included Him because they can't. He hasn't a place in them. How sad and how sick.Run from these, Latter-day Saints, and give yourself a chance to know God outside of such arrogance.IJA,BAMMER um ok sure, like i plan on taking advice from you. Link to comment
aznative Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Bammer, you sure don't get it yet do you?We as latter day saints can trace our calling into the priest hood back to Jesus Christ. By what authority do you call unto others to follow the one true Christ? By no authority. NONE!!! You are now the wolf in sheeps clothing, yes one of the many who cannot call unto the people in the name of Jesus because you have no authority from him! You are the cult member. YES, Cult Member!!! Being led this week by whatever false prophet, or preacher you hearken to this week. Next week, it will be someone different. Tossed too and fro' like the rudderless vessel you are. How sad.You can call out all you want, condemn all you want, and rant all you want. It will do now good. Those of us who know the truth will not be taken in by cult members such as yourself. Have a nice day cultie. Link to comment
Drevan Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Bammer, you sure don't get it yet do you?We as latter day saints can trace our calling into the priest hood back to Jesus Christ. By what authority do you call unto others to follow the one true Christ? By no authority. NONE!!! You are now the wolf in sheeps clothing, yes one of the many who cannot call unto the people in the name of Jesus because you have no authority from him! You are the cult member. YES, Cult Member!!! Being led this week by whatever false prophet, or preacher you hearken to this week. Next week, it will be someone different. Tossed too and fro' like the rudderless vessel you are. How sad.You can call out all you want, condemn all you want, and rant all you want. It will do now good. Those of us who know the truth will not be taken in by cult members such as yourself. Have a nice day cultie. Careful, you might feel the moderators rath Link to comment
aznative Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Sorry.. no I'm not.I've snapped Drevan. Tired of the Church always being called a 'cult' when it is the EV?BACs that are the cult members. Nothing personal against bammer. It's not just him thats the cult member. It's all of the EV/BACs out there on this board. But hey, that's their job, to try to lead us astray, right? LOL All you EV/BACs. However it does get tiring after a while. Seriously thogh, this was just my way of witnessing to bammer that he is wrong. No apologies for that. I mean seriously, why would I want to run from the Church of Christ into the arms of Satan, as bammer suggests? Link to comment
Drevan Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Sorry.. no I'm not.I've snapped Drevan. Tired of the Church always being called a 'cult' when it is the EV?BACs that are the cult members. Nothing personal against bammer. It's not just him thats the cult member. It's all of the EV/BACs out there on this board. But hey, that's their job, to try to lead us astray, right? LOL All you EV/BACs. However it does get tiring after a while. Seriously thogh, this was just my way of witnessing to bammer that he is wrong. No apologies for that. I mean seriously, why would I want to run from the Church of Christ into the arms of Satan, as bammer suggests? Snapped finally have you? Well join the club, now maybe you'll understand why im labeled the Anti-Anti-mormon. I snapped in my mission. I got tired of the anti material that simply just appeared when i helped open a new area in Brasil. I think i took on a different pastor about every other week. This was a testiment to me that Satan is alive and well. Convinently out of no where Anti Mormon literature shows up. THat community of 100k people went from not ever hearing of the Church to having entire religious organizations hold "meetings" about the new Mormon movement in the community. I think the most memorable discussion i have of that area was sitting in a room with 10 catholic priests in training all reading and listening to the Book of Mormon. People like bammer don't have a clue, few people like him ever do get a clue, but when they do they become members, and the strongest ones. Link to comment
Daniel Peterson Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Bammer's continuously judgmental rants -- ornamented, as they have been, with sermonizing against judgmentalism -- remind me of Adlai Stevenson's comment about a rival whom he considered a hypocrite: "He is the kind of politician who would cut down a redwood tree, then mount the stump and make a speech for conservation." A hypocrite always practices what he preaches against. Link to comment
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