Who Wrote The Bible? By Richard Elliot Freedman

[Olavarria]

Does anyone else here have this book?

How up-to-date is it?

Bokovoy?

The following are page numbers and concepts found in the Freedman book that have possible correlations and explanations to some things in the Book of Mormon. The format I chose is:

Claim(citation in Freedman)

Verses in the Book of Mormon

Here we go.....

Sometime between 722-587BC, J and E came together(pg 87-88)

1 Nephi 13:23(Nephi's Description of the Bible)

1 Nephi 5:10-16(Nephi's Description of the Brass Plates

1 Nephi 3:3

2 Nephi 3:12

The N. Kingdom, E Source Name for God was Elohiem. The Judahite, J Source name for God was Jehovah(pg81-83).

Only twice in the whole Book of Mormon is the name Jehovah used, 2 Nephi22:2(Isaiah 12:2) and Moroni 10:34.

The E-Source held to a preminanace of Joseph over Judah(pg.62-67)

Omni 1:19

Mosiah 25:2

2 Nephi 3:14-16

2 Nephi 4:2

Elohist Source demonstrates N. Kingdom antipathies toward Judah(pg 45, 66, 71)

2 Nephi 21:13(Isa 11:13)

2 Nephi 19:21(Isa 11:3)

2 Nephi 10:3

2 Nephi 25:2,9

Jacob 4:14,15-17

Jacob 1:15

Jacob 2:23-24

Omni 1:17

The Elohist Source showed a reverance for Moses(pg 79-80).

1 Nephi 4:2

1 Nephi 17:24-26

2 Nephi 3:9,10,17

3 Nephi 27:8

Helaman 8:11

The story of the Bronze Serpent comes from the Elohist Source(pg 126)

Alma 33:19-20

The Priests of Beth-El,who functioned during the 200 years between Jeroboam and the fall of Israel in 722, were of the N. Kingdom and were not Levites(pg 121).

2 Nephi 5:26

Jacob 1:18

1 Nephi 5:9

1 Nephi 7:22

Tentative Conclusions

The core of the Brass Plates was a, currently non-extant, form of JE composed by the Elohist descendants of N. Kingdom refugees.

Because they were composed by the Elohist descendants of N. Kingdom refugees, the Brass Plates contained Elohist sources not extant in our current Bibles. The Brass Plates also featured a biased to N.Kingdom traditions that would shape the theology and attitudes of the Nephite elites when interpreting salvation history and dealing with Judahites in the New World.

[Olavarria]

Biblical Scholarship and The Brass Plates

by John L. Sorenson

[Ron Beron]

Does anyone else here have this book?

How up-to-date is it?

Bokovoy?

Without discussion I own the book and even though it is a bit dated it is still excellent. More germane to LDS thinkers is that he believes the Bible was written during Hezekiah's reign. His most recent book is Commentary on the Torah.

[Sargon]

I own an older edition of the book and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Someday I'll get his more recent edition, which I understand has some important corrections and updates.

I don't remember when I became of Sorenson's proposal that Laban's plates were a sort of proto E source, but I think it's creative and interesting.

[Olavarria]

I own an older edition of the book and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Someday I'll get his more recent edition, which I understand has some important corrections and updates.

I don't remember when I became of Sorenson's proposal that Laban's plates were a sort of proto E source, but I think it's creative and interesting.

Let's look at what the text says:

1 Nephi 3:3

For behold, Laban hath the record of the Jews and also a genealogy of my forefathers, and they are bengraven upon plates of brass.

1 Nephi 5:11-13

11)And he beheld that they did contain the five books of Moses, which gave an account of the creation of the world, and also of Adam and Eve, who were our first parents;

12)And also a record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah;

13)And also the prophecies of the holy prophets, from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the reign of Zedekiah; and also many prophecies which have been spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah.

So the Brass Plates contained:

1)A Josephite geneology

2)"the five books of Moses", this is possibly an anachronistic Smithism for Torah, which contained an account of the creation, Adam and Eve etc.

3)a record of the Jews, "from the beginning" down to "Zedekiah".

4)prophecies by prophets

5)prophecies by Jeremiah

Based on Freedman's book, what this might be in scholar speak is some form of:

1)E

2)??

3)J

4)E,J

5)an early form of D

The fact that the brass plates contained a proto-torah, and contemporary prophets(Jeremiah)shows that the production of the Brass plates was roughly contemporary with Lehi, with some sections being definitely contemporary.

The Laban Questian

Laban was a wealthy man, with a treasury, servants, military authority and was a Josephite who ran in the powerful Jewish circles of Jerusalem. He, like the his peers, appears to have a vendetta against the defeatists prophets like Lehi and Jeremiah(1 Nephi 1,4,5,7). Someone correct me, please.

Here's the thing though. Jeremiah was cast into prison for his defeatist message, Lehi into exile. Yet,why would Jeremiah's prophecies have been recorded on plates that were kept by Laban, on the brass plates? "He and his fathers had kept the records".

Freedman might give us some clues(pg.125-129):

Jeremiah as Shiloh Priest

1)Jeremiah is the one prophet of the Bible to refer to Shiloh(4x's).

2)He calls Shiloh "the place where I[God] caused my name to dwell," which is the Deutoronomic term for the central place of worship.

3)Jeremiah was from Anathoth, the town where the last recorded leader of the Shiloh priesthood, Abiathar was expelled to by Solomon. Anathoth was a town of Aaronid priests who were hostile to Jeremiah.

4)Jeremiah is a priest but never sacrifices. Which is consistent with the position of the Shiloh priests.

5)He is also the only prophet to allude to the story of Moses's snake staff, an Elohist story.

6)Deutoronomy is attributed by Freedman to Shiloh priests. There are several reasons to believe that the books of Jeremiah and Deuteronomy were written by the same person:

a)Deut 28:1; Jer 17:24

b)Deut 10:16; Jer 4:4

c)Deut 4:19;17:3 ; Jer 8:2;19:13

d)Deut 4:20; Jer 11:4

e)Deut 4:29;10:12;11:13;13:4 ;Jer32:41

So why would Laban and his fathers record the prophecies of someone they were against?

Answer: Jeremiah was a "Shiloh priest". Shiloh was the spiritual center of the N.Kingdom and Laban's fathers, as Josephites, were probably refugees from the N.Kingdom.

Thoughts?

[Kevin Christensen]

You might want to read Kevin Barney's insightful Dialogue essay on the topic of the Documentary Hypothesis.

http://members.shaw.ca/mschindler/B/doc_hyp.htm

There is another essay on the topic at the Potter and Wellington site, as I recall.

Also Steven St. Clair used to have an excellent essay online on the Book of Mormon and the Northern Tradition. It is his conscious follow on to Sorenson's paper. I saved the version without footnotes. For instance, on Priesthood:

When the Prophet Jeremiah, himself perhaps a descendant of northern Israelite priests, praised the covenant-keeping of the Rechabites shortly before the Babylonian captivity, he made them a striking promise in the name of the Lord: "Jonadab, son of Rechab, shall never lack a man to stand before me." To "stand before the Lord" was a technical term with the specific meaning of serving as a priest, because the title "priest" (Heb. cohen) is derived from a word meaning "to stand upright." Centuries later, there were still descendants of Jonadab serving as "water-drinking sacrificers" in the second temple period. When James the Just, the brother of Jesus, was martyred at the temple, it was "a priest of the Rechabites" who tried to prevent his death by crying out "Stop! the Just is praying for you." The Rechabites, then, were a group of functioning priests who had no traceable connection with the tribe of Levi or the ancestry of Aaron. In the Book of Mormon, Nephi designated his younger brothers Jacob and Joseph as "priests and teachers" without specifying any special tribal or lineage requirements. Later, a series of high priests served among the Nephites who made no claim to descent from Aaron. In light of the normative practices regarding the priesthood among followers of the northern Israelite tradition, it is probably a mistake to search for some connection with Aaron or Levi, since it does not seem to have been required of northern priests.

I've got the second edition of Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible, wherein Friedman suggests that Jeremiah, or perhaps Baruch, was the Deuteronomist. I think it was Ben McGuire who informed that the third edition backs off that claim. While originally very interested in the claim, in my own reading of Jeremiah, I noticed that Jeremiah contradicts Deuteronomy on exactly the points that Margaret Barker sees as key to the reform. Ben also pointed me to an essay that argues that Jeremiah and the Deuteronomist quote and respond to each other. From my languishing essay on the topic:

First consider the most obvious differences between Deuteronomy and Jeremiah. The keynote of the Deuteronomists is their regard for written law. Deuteronomy 4 depicts Moses as informing Israel:

Keep therefore and do them [that is, the statutes and judgments of the law] for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. (Deut. 4:6)

Jeremiah seems to be commenting on this very passage:

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them? (Jer. 8:8-9)

Friedman and Bright both offer stronger translation.

[Olavarria]

Hey Kevin,

with regards to Jeremiah's probable N.Kingdom ties,5 out of 6 ain't bad;)

Thanks for the insights:)

I still have alot to learn about the DH but I think that it might prove useful in explaining certain aspects of Book of Mormon history like:

1)Why did the BP contain a different version of the scriptures extant today.

2)Why do Nephite writers say such harsh things about the Judahites in the OW and NW.

3)Why Mosiah became king of Zarahemla, when his group was outnumbered by the group led by a descendant of Jewish royalty.

4)Why the name Jehovah only appears twice in the English translation, one of which was a quote of Isaiah.

5)Why Jeremiah was quoted in the BP by his enemies.

6)The Nephite admiration of Moses and the contempt for David and Solomon.

[Olavarria]

Here are some notes from Sorenson's paper:

1.The Book of Mormon virtually ignores the Davidic covenant, a "J"

element. David is mentioned but six times (two incidentally in quotations

from Isaiah). Two instances involved strong condemnation of David.

2.Instead, considerable attention is paid to the Abrahamic convenant and

to the patriarchs. All twenty-nine references to Abraham are laudatory.

Jacob is also so named, a positive E characteristic, whereas J uses "Israel"

as his personal name.

3.The Jews, particularly the inhabitants of Jerusalem, are branded as evil

in the strongest terms.

4.Emphasis is placed on Joseph being sold into Egypt, his saving Jacob's

house, and the Lord's special covenant with Joseph which is not attested

in the Old Testament. The coat of Joseph is a topic specific to E on which

the Book of Mormon adds data not found in the Jewish version (J).

5.The name Jehovah, the preferred J title of deity, occurs only twice in the

Book of Mormon (once in a quote from Isaiah 12

[Olavarria]

Does anyone have "A Documentary Analysis of the Book of Abraham," by Robert F. Smith?

[Robert F. Smith]

Does anyone have "A Documentary Analysis of the Book of Abraham," by Robert F. Smith?

Pedro,

I can send you a digital copy (do you use Microsoft Word 2010?), but I'll need your email. If you wish to keep it confidential, just send it to Paul Hoskisson, Matt Roper, or someone you communicate with at the Maxwell Institute, and I'll get it from them. I just tried sending you a personal message, but this Board would not allow if for some strange reason.

Bob

[Olavarria]

Pedro,

I can send you a digital copy (do you use Microsoft Word 2010?), but I'll need your email. If you wish to keep it confidential, just send it to Paul Hoskisson, Matt Roper, or someone you communicate with at the Maxwell Institute, and I'll get it from them. I just tried sending you a personal message, but this Board would not allow if for some strange reason.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I sent my email address to your MADB message thing.

If I'm not mistake, ur thesis was that BoA was mostly composed of J and P, right?

[Olavarria]

bump