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Prophets... seeing God face to face


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#1 negragardenia

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

Hello! How's everyone doing?

A person has asked me ... how many lds prophets have seen god face to face..? I really just thought of one .. Joseph Smith.
Are there any others that have mentioned this fact. I see a thread similar to this one where the grandaughter states de Lorenzo Snow had seen him face to face.

Second... do we teach that prophets can see god face to face? I mean this like for the training of the missionaries or any doctrine books... as far as I understand it could be a posibility.. but is just another way of how to have revelation.

Thanks...!

Any material to study let me know please.
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#2 Gohan

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:40 PM

In terms of Heavenly Father? Yeah, Joseph's the only one I can think of for seeing Him. In terms of the Savior? To answer that in an extremely roundabout way, I'll give you this quote from President Packer quite a few years ago.

The bolding is mine...

In Doctrine and Covenants 107:23 we read,
“The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world.” President Boyd K. Packer spoke of the sacred nature of an apostolic witness of Jesus Christ: “Occasionally during the past year I have been asked a question. Usually it comes as a curious, almost an idle, question about the qualifications to stand as a witness for Christ. The question they ask is, ‘Have you seen Him?’ “That is a question that I have never asked of another. I have not asked that question of my brethren in the Quorum, thinking that it would be so sacred and so personal that one would have to have some special inspiration, indeed, some authorization, even to ask it. “There are some things just too sacred to discuss. . . .

“There are those who hear testimonies borne in the Church, by those in high station and by members in the wards and branches, all using the same words—‘I know that God lives; I know that Jesus is the Christ,’ and come to question, ‘Why cannot it be said in plainer words? Why aren’t they more explicit and more descriptive? Cannot the apostles say more?’

“How like the sacred experience in the temple becomes our personal testimony. It is sacred, and when we are wont to put it into words, we say it in the same way—all using the same words. The apostles declare it in the same phrases with the little Primary or Sunday School youngster. ‘I know that God lives and I know thatJesus is the Christ.’ . . .

“I said there was a question that could not be taken lightly nor answered at all without the prompting of the Spirit. I have not asked that question of others, but I have heard them answer it—but not when they were asked. They have answered it under the prompting of the Spirit, on sacred occasions, when ‘the Spirit beareth record.’ ( D&C 1:39 ) “I have heard one of my brethren declare: ‘I know from experiences, too sacred to relate, that Jesus is the Christ.’ “I have heard another testify: ‘I know that God lives; I know that the Lord lives. And more than that, I know the Lord.’ “It was not their words that held the meaning or the power. It was the Spirit. ‘ . . . for when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men.’ ( 2 Ne. 33:1 )

“I speak upon this subject in humility, with the constant feeling that I am the least in every way of those who are called to this holy office...

“Now, I wonder with you why one such as I should be called to the holy apostleship. There are so many qualifications that I lack. There is so much in my effort to serve that is wanting. As I have pondered on it, I have come to only one single thing, one qualification in which there may be cause, and that is, I have that witness.

“I declare to you that I know that Jesus is the Christ. I know that he lives. He was born in the meridian of time. He taught his gospel, was tried, was crucified. He rose on the third day. He was the first fruits of the resurrection. He has a body of flesh and bone. Of this I bear testimony. Of him I am a witness”

(in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, 123–25; or Ensign, June 1971, 87–88).


Edited by Gohan, 26 January 2011 - 08:42 PM.

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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh crap...he's awake!"

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.(John 21:25)

 

"We're wandering around as strangers looking for things to recognize, and whenever you see something which you know is good, true, and beautiful, that's an act of recognition. And you recognize it as such not by analyzing it, but it comes to your memory, it hits you, 'I've seen that, I know that's right' and so forth." ~ Hugh Nibley


#3 mercyngrace

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:58 PM

There's a story about Lorenzo Snow seeing Christ in this thread.
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#4 mnn727

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 10:56 AM

Moses did.

Exodus 33:11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
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#5 splendidsun

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 11:14 AM

See here(and the linked item therein on Brigham Young, which has some similar information). I ran across a letter from Heber J. Grant, when he was Church President in which he stated: "I know of no instance where the Lord has appeared to an individual since His appearance to the Prophet Joseph Smith."
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#6 evangelist

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:36 PM

Moses did.

Exodus 33:11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.


Also Abraham spoke face to face with God , and een eat with Him. which I think that God put on His Jesus fleah suit over His spirit to come talk with Abraham and walk on earth!

one love
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#7 Zakuska

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:48 PM

Also Abraham spoke face to face with God , and een eat with Him. which I think that God put on His Jesus fleah suit over His spirit to come talk with Abraham and walk on earth!

one love

Um.... please excue me being a dunce but wasn't the whole point of the Encarnation "God became flesh and dwelt among us". How in the world could God have a "flesh suit" to walk around with Abraham if the encarnation hadn't ever happened yet?

Unless.... the Father does have a body of flesh and bones?!
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"Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!" -- Martin Luther

#8 Nathair/|\

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 07:51 PM

Well, what do you make of the testimony Elder McConkie bore in his last General Conference talk?


And now, as pertaining to this perfect atonement, wrought by the shedding of the blood of God—I testify that it took place in Gethsemane and at Golgotha, and as pertaining to Jesus Christ, I testify that he is the Son of the Living God and was crucified for the sins of the world. He is our Lord, our God, and our King. This I know of myself independent of any other person.I am one of his witnesses, and in a coming day I shall feel the nail marks in his hands and in his feet and shall wet his feet with my tears.


But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God’s Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way.


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#9 Zakuska

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:20 PM

Here are some more instances where men have seen God face to face and lived.

Judges 13
1 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years.
2 ¶And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bare not.
3 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
4 Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink not wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:
5 For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.
6 ¶Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name:
7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.
8 ¶Then Manoah intreated the Lord, and said, O my Lord, let the man of God which thou didst send come again unto us, and teach us what we shall do unto the child that shall be born.
9 And God hearkened to the voice of Manoah; and the angel of God came again unto the woman as she sat in the field: but Manoah her husband was not with her.
10 And the woman made haste, and ran, and shewed her husband, and said unto him, Behold, the man hath appeared unto me, that came unto me the other day.
11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, Art thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.
12 And Manoah said, Now let thy words come to pass. How shall we order the child, and how shall we do unto him? 13And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware.
14 She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe.
15 ¶And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.
16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.
17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?
18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him,
Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?
19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.
20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.
21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die,
because we have seen God.
23 But his wife said unto him, If the Lord were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these.
24 ¶And the woman bare a son, and called his name Samson: and the child grew, and the Lord blessed him.
25 And the Spirit of the Lord began to move him at times in the camp of Dan between Zorah and Eshtaol

Isaiah 6
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 ¶Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.


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"Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.” -- Martin Luther
"Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!" -- Martin Luther

#10 Duncan

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 08:37 PM

See here(and the linked item therein on Brigham Young, which has some similar information). I ran across a letter from Heber J. Grant, when he was Church President in which he stated: "I know of no instance where the Lord has appeared to an individual since His appearance to the Prophet Joseph Smith."



I am wondering if Pres. Grant meant God the Father and not the Son? I know Elder George F. Richards of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles saw Christ and mentioned it in two of his conference addresses, as did Elder David B. Haight in one of his conference addreses from either '88 or '89.
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"On a surprising number of occasions as a professor of religion at the Brigham Young University, I had returned missionaries object to something being taught that was new to them by saying, "How can this possibly be true? I have been a member of the Church my whole life, I am returned missionary, and I have never heard this before!" Thus their understanding has become the standard by which the truth of all things is to be measured"

Joseph Fielding McConkie, Between the Lines:Unlocking Scripture with Timeless Principles, 157


#11 Nathair/|\

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:42 PM

I am wondering if Pres. Grant meant God the Father and not the Son? I know Elder George F. Richards of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles saw Christ and mentioned it in two of his conference addresses, as did Elder David B. Haight in one of his conference addreses from either '88 or '89.


I think you're right. I suspect all the Apostles have seen the Savior, but I don't see why they would need to see the Father.
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#12 urbanaut

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 12:23 PM

This is an interesting question, and especially odd to me that general authorities will not answer the question directly, with only statements as to how sacred such an experience would be. As I read the scriptures I have noted that almost every prophet called of God seems to have some direct contact with Christ, which seems to always be followed with giving their testimony of this interaction and relaying His messages as "Thus sayeth the Lord..." Why appear to a prophet of the Lord and not have that prophet declare so for benefit and testimony of those whom they preach to?
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#13 LeSellers

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 07:27 PM

Also Abraham spoke face to face with God , a.nd een eat with Him.

This is a great (and grave) admission. Most "Evangelicals" discount Joseph Smith's vision as bogus because "no man hath seen God at any time", even though the Bible (contradicting itself on this point, too) clearly shows many men (e.g., Abraham and Moses) have, indeed, seen Him.

which I think that God put on His Jesus fleah [sic, flesh(?)] suit over His spirit to come talk with Abraham and walk on earth!

This is incomprehensible. There is no "Jesus flesh suit". Either Jesus was resurrected and has His body, as He demonstrated, or He was not, and "we are of all men most miserable."

Lehi

Edited by LeSellers, 04 February 2011 - 07:28 PM.

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#14 Avatar4321

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:13 PM

The Father and the Son appeared to the School of the Prophets according to testimony given by some of it's members. I believe many, if not all, Presidents of the Church and members of the Twelve were part of that school.

I can't say whether they all saw it though. I know a number of them were also on missions in similiar time periods. Might be something interesting to check on sometime.
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#15 Monster

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 06:08 PM

I think you're right. I suspect all the Apostles have seen the Savior, but I don't see why they would need to see the Father.


All they need to do is take a picture and then we could all see the face of the Savior. What would be wrong with that?
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#16 Nathair/|\

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 06:18 PM

All they need to do is take a picture and then we could all see the face of the Savior. What would be wrong with that?




The camera would melt?
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