Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

From Whence Cometh the Antichrist?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
36 replies to this topic

#1 Cold Steel

Cold Steel

    Places Sun, Moon & Stars In The Sky

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,593 posts

Posted 03 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

Ezekiel calls him "Gog" and John warns that his army will cover the land as sand covers the seashore. He will appear in the last days and amass worldwide power. Then he'll move against Israel with what the scriptures declare will be "all nations."

But how will Gog (popularly called the "Antichrist") do this when the United States has pledged to support Israel with its vast nuclear arsenal? There are three possibilities: 1) the U.S. will be one of the nations controlled by the Antichrist; 2) the U.S. may no longer be in the position of defending Israel due to a change in the balance of power; or 3) the U.S. will no longer be in existence, and Zion will be the predominant power in North America.

Some have pointed out that Ezra T. Benson and others have repeatedly said that this country would endure, but prophecy seems to indicate that it may endure only in the hearts of the saints and others who have gathered to Zion.

Zechariah said, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" in that day. Is this just a figure of speech or is it to be taken literally? Some protestant websites have gone so far as to show Russian, Chinese and U.S. flags in flanking positions against Jerusalem, and I was surprised to see that some have identified Elijah and Moses as the two prophets who would stand against Jerusalem's enemies. Others have indicated that the two witnesses would be the Israel and the church (God's ancient and modern witnesses). Nephi, in quoting Isaiah, states: "Thy two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee -- thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword -- and by whom shall I comfort thee? Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets." (2 Nephi 8:19) Nephi makes the connection of the two "sons" (missing in the Isaiah text, chapter 51:18-21), but Nephi indicates that the two prophets will be Jews, and Bruce R. McConkie indicates they will be latter-day apostles. That Nephi would say "these two sons are come unto thee" indicates to me that they will not be residents of Jerusalem, but will come from somewhere else to fulfill their missions. "Thy sons have fainted," he tells Jerusalem, "save these two" shows that they'll have power to repel the enemy.

If the United States no longer is a world power, then the two prophets will have either had to be in the city for a long period of time or have found some means of transportation. The question is, where do you think the Beast will come from and, if you're not LDS, who do you think the two witnesses will be?

The world will have to change radically for these prophecies to be fulfilled. But then, we still have the sixth seal earthquake (which John says will have a profound effect on the nations) and that followed by the half hour of silence -- which works out to be a little over twenty years prophetically. According to prophecy, the U.S. will become the greatest of all nations, but it most likely will not remain so. Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball, the Pratts and other early prophets all state that our cities would be left desolate and great civil wars would take place. Out of this turmoil will come the Beast, or Antichrist. But where will he come from? And when will he appear?

Thoughts?

.
  • 0
"...for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children
of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish
the thing which he commandeth them." --Nephi 3:7

"Never give an order that can't be obeyed." --Douglas MacArthur

#2 Nathair/|\

Nathair/|\

    Barbarian Druid Mage

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,171 posts

Posted 03 January 2011 - 08:47 PM

I don't want to get too much into politics, but our executive branch doesn't seem to be excessively interested in maintaining good relationships with Israel.
  • 0
"Myth" doesn't mean "untrue story," it means "story about
the things that really matter."--John Michael Greer



My LDS Druid blog My poetry The old gods are stirring, Time traces a spiral.

#3 Palerider

Palerider

    Separates Water & Dry Land

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,427 posts

Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:50 PM

Ezekiel calls him "Gog" and John warns that his army will cover the land as sand covers the seashore. He will appear in the last days and amass worldwide power. Then he'll move against Israel with what the scriptures declare will be "all nations."

But how will Gog (popularly called the "Antichrist") do this when the United States has pledged to support Israel with its vast nuclear arsenal? There are three possibilities: 1) the U.S. will be one of the nations controlled by the Antichrist; 2) the U.S. may no longer be in the position of defending Israel due to a change in the balance of power; or 3) the U.S. will no longer be in existence, and Zion will be the predominant power in North America.

Some have pointed out that Ezra T. Benson and others have repeatedly said that this country would endure, but prophecy seems to indicate that it may endure only in the hearts of the saints and others who have gathered to Zion.

Zechariah said, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" in that day. Is this just a figure of speech or is it to be taken literally? Some protestant websites have gone so far as to show Russian, Chinese and U.S. flags in flanking positions against Jerusalem, and I was surprised to see that some have identified Elijah and Moses as the two prophets who would stand against Jerusalem's enemies. Others have indicated that the two witnesses would be the Israel and the church (God's ancient and modern witnesses). Nephi, in quoting Isaiah, states: "Thy two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee -- thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword -- and by whom shall I comfort thee? Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets." (2 Nephi 8:19) Nephi makes the connection of the two "sons" (missing in the Isaiah text, chapter 51:18-21), but Nephi indicates that the two prophets will be Jews, and Bruce R. McConkie indicates they will be latter-day apostles. That Nephi would say "these two sons are come unto thee" indicates to me that they will not be residents of Jerusalem, but will come from somewhere else to fulfill their missions. "Thy sons have fainted," he tells Jerusalem, "save these two" shows that they'll have power to repel the enemy.

If the United States no longer is a world power, then the two prophets will have either had to be in the city for a long period of time or have found some means of transportation. The question is, where do you think the Beast will come from and, if you're not LDS, who do you think the two witnesses will be?

The world will have to change radically for these prophecies to be fulfilled. But then, we still have the sixth seal earthquake (which John says will have a profound effect on the nations) and that followed by the half hour of silence -- which works out to be a little over twenty years prophetically. According to prophecy, the U.S. will become the greatest of all nations, but it most likely will not remain so. Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball, the Pratts and other early prophets all state that our cities would be left desolate and great civil wars would take place. Out of this turmoil will come the Beast, or Antichrist. But where will he come from? And when will he appear?

Thoughts?

.


Guess I'll have to do a little research for proof text but I never equated Gog directly with the anti-christ. Figured Gog and Magog were just taking advantage of a situation created by the anti-christ.....who could actually be a political leader anywhere else in the world.....Like the U.N.....after he finishes his single term in Washington.

Edited by Palerider, 03 January 2011 - 10:50 PM.

  • 0
"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic." --Dresden James


#4 Stargazer

Stargazer

    Observing the heavens since 1951.

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,534 posts

Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:17 PM

From what I have heard, the AC is to be born in Cluj County, Romania.

:P
  • 0
do {} while (true)
My personal blog | My YouTube Channel | My LDS Profile | Twitter: @IWasAboutToSay
bothcovers_icon2.jpg...http://www.prospectavenuebooks.com

#5 BookofMormonLuvr

BookofMormonLuvr

    Zion Builder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:28 AM

The Strangites believe Joseph Smith and James J. Strang are the two prophets spoken of in Revelation. Let me see if I can find an article about it...
  • 0

"I would rather go to church in an outhouse and hear the fullness of the Gospel, then go to church in a beautiful building and not hear it." - My Wife

Restoration Based Hebrew Roots Fellowship in Independence, MO: https://www.facebook...62054130596080/


#6 Palerider

Palerider

    Separates Water & Dry Land

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,427 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:34 AM

The Strangites believe Joseph Smith and James J. Strang are the two prophets spoken of in Revelation. Let me see if I can find an article about it...


Wouldn't that be difficult seeing those two prophets are to testify in Jerusalem?
  • 0
"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic." --Dresden James


#7 BookofMormonLuvr

BookofMormonLuvr

    Zion Builder

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:45 AM

Wouldn't that be difficult seeing those two prophets are to testify in Jerusalem?


Patience... that is why I am trying to find the specific article that speaks of it, so it can give their interpretation. It has been years since I studied it.
  • 0

"I would rather go to church in an outhouse and hear the fullness of the Gospel, then go to church in a beautiful building and not hear it." - My Wife

Restoration Based Hebrew Roots Fellowship in Independence, MO: https://www.facebook...62054130596080/


#8 rpn

rpn

    violets

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,045 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:51 AM

Derail, why would you capitalize the pronoun reference in the title of this thread to the antichrist.
  • 0

#9 Jeff K.

Jeff K.

    Creates Beasts Of The Earth

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,511 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:01 AM

The anti Christ will probably be the brightest kid in seminary, perhaps one of the most effective Stake Presidents we have had and perhaps even an apostle of great talent.
  • 0
I would rather deal with a hundred ravenous wolves than sully myself with one dishonest man. The wolves are honest, straightforward and you know what it is they want. The battle is hard fought but open and free. The dishonest man though, he is a thing, like Cain, that should be shunned, exiled.

"You will rise or fall to the kingdom within which you feel the greatest comfort."

"There are those who would define the family in such a nontraditional way that they would define the family out of existence."
President Spencer W. Kimball 1980

#10 LDS Truthseeker

LDS Truthseeker

    Newbie: Without form, and void

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 36 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:07 AM

Gog is short for Google. Google is starting to take over the whole earth and gains more power every day. :P
  • 3

#11 thesometimesaint

thesometimesaint

    Is Universe

  • Limited
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,749 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 11:48 AM

There have been many anti-Christ's in the past, the probably are many now, and there in all be many more in the future. Till the return of the king.
  • 0

#12 Zakuska

Zakuska

    Creates Worlds Without Number

  • Limited
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,607 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 11:50 AM

The anti Christ will probably be the brightest kid in seminary, perhaps one of the most effective Stake Presidents we have had and perhaps even an apostle of great talent.

Darn.... that rules out Ed Decker and the Tanners!
  • 0
"Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.” -- Martin Luther
"Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!" -- Martin Luther

#13 Palerider

Palerider

    Separates Water & Dry Land

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,427 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:30 PM

Darn.... that rules out Ed Decker and the Tanners!


I don't believe the Tanners are against Christ. Just against "smoke and mirrors.........."

Edited by Palerider, 04 January 2011 - 04:25 PM.

  • 0
"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic." --Dresden James


#14 Zakuska

Zakuska

    Creates Worlds Without Number

  • Limited
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,607 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:43 PM

If I would venture a guess... the Anti-Christ will come from a Baptist denomination. :P

Edited by Zakuska, 04 January 2011 - 04:30 PM.

  • 1
"Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.” -- Martin Luther
"Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!" -- Martin Luther

#15 Nathair/|\

Nathair/|\

    Barbarian Druid Mage

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,171 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:55 PM

I don't believe the Tanners are against Christ. Just "smoke and mirrors.........."


They sure fight pretty hard against His kingdom.
  • 0
"Myth" doesn't mean "untrue story," it means "story about
the things that really matter."--John Michael Greer



My LDS Druid blog My poetry The old gods are stirring, Time traces a spiral.

#16 katherine the great

katherine the great

    Creates Man & Woman

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,701 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:02 PM

I think its all allegorical.
  • 1
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Oscar Wilde

#17 Palerider

Palerider

    Separates Water & Dry Land

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,427 posts

Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:24 PM

They sure fight pretty hard against His kingdom.


Only the whitewashed parts of it. I'm sure they would cut the church some slack if there were some serious honesty delivered on certain subjects.
  • 0
"A truth's initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker, a raving lunatic." --Dresden James


#18 ELF1024

ELF1024

    "Elvis Has Fled The Building"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,601 posts

Posted 05 January 2011 - 11:15 AM

I personally am pretty sure that the Anti-Christ will be from the Middle-East. At least one dictator in the Middle-East area has promised to wipe out Israel, and has been talking about a World without Zionism.

As far as I'm concerned, the Anti-Christ died June 8, 632 at 63 years of age.

Edited by ELF1024, 05 January 2011 - 01:00 PM.

  • 0

#19 Bill Hamblin

Bill Hamblin

    Exchanging views with people who really love Mormons since 1984

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,148 posts

Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:14 PM

I personally am pretty sure that the Anti-Christ will be from the Middle-East. At least one dictator in the Middle-East area has promised to wipe out Israel, and has been talking about a World without Zionism.

As far as I'm concerned, the Anti-Christ died June 8, 632 at 63 years of age.


Funny how that fellow is viewed by the Church as an inspired man.

If you understand anti-Christ as mirror-image/false messiah, then he will be Jewish.
If you understand it as one who is opposed to the Messiah, then he could be anything.
  • 0

#20 jadams_4242

jadams_4242

    Places Sun, Moon & Stars In The Sky

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,683 posts

Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:45 PM

Ezekiel calls him "Gog" and John warns that his army will cover the land as sand covers the seashore. He will appear in the last days and amass worldwide power. Then he'll move against Israel with what the scriptures declare will be "all nations."

But how will Gog (popularly called the "Antichrist") do this when the United States has pledged to support Israel with its vast nuclear arsenal? There are three possibilities: 1) the U.S. will be one of the nations controlled by the Antichrist; 2) the U.S. may no longer be in the position of defending Israel due to a change in the balance of power; or 3) the U.S. will no longer be in existence, and Zion will be the predominant power in North America.

Some have pointed out that Ezra T. Benson and others have repeatedly said that this country would endure, but prophecy seems to indicate that it may endure only in the hearts of the saints and others who have gathered to Zion.

Zechariah said, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle" in that day. Is this just a figure of speech or is it to be taken literally? Some protestant websites have gone so far as to show Russian, Chinese and U.S. flags in flanking positions against Jerusalem, and I was surprised to see that some have identified Elijah and Moses as the two prophets who would stand against Jerusalem's enemies. Others have indicated that the two witnesses would be the Israel and the church (God's ancient and modern witnesses). Nephi, in quoting Isaiah, states: "Thy two sons are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee -- thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword -- and by whom shall I comfort thee? Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets." (2 Nephi 8:19) Nephi makes the connection of the two "sons" (missing in the Isaiah text, chapter 51:18-21), but Nephi indicates that the two prophets will be Jews, and Bruce R. McConkie indicates they will be latter-day apostles. That Nephi would say "these two sons are come unto thee" indicates to me that they will not be residents of Jerusalem, but will come from somewhere else to fulfill their missions. "Thy sons have fainted," he tells Jerusalem, "save these two" shows that they'll have power to repel the enemy.

If the United States no longer is a world power, then the two prophets will have either had to be in the city for a long period of time or have found some means of transportation. The question is, where do you think the Beast will come from and, if you're not LDS, who do you think the two witnesses will be?

The world will have to change radically for these prophecies to be fulfilled. But then, we still have the sixth seal earthquake (which John says will have a profound effect on the nations) and that followed by the half hour of silence -- which works out to be a little over twenty years prophetically. According to prophecy, the U.S. will become the greatest of all nations, but it most likely will not remain so. Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball, the Pratts and other early prophets all state that our cities would be left desolate and great civil wars would take place. Out of this turmoil will come the Beast, or Antichrist. But where will he come from? And when will he appear?

Thoughts?

.


have we ever considered the beast or antiChrist to maybe be several of them rather than just one.. I;E a movement, a coalition, e;t;c... :P
  • 0


0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users