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#41 Rob Osborn

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 02:23 PM

I'm not certain of the origin. I'm guessing that its Rodger K Young who claims he saw a vision of the tent cities and then others jumping onboard with similar claims. I read a book about a near death experience (Sarah Menet) who claims that she saw vision of tribulations prior to the second coming and one of the things she saw was good people gathering to places of safety with meager supplies and living in tents. She claims most of these gatherings were taking place in the western states.

I normally would not place much weight in such claims but I do think the church's persuit of buying land all over for girls camps is really weird and it makes sense to me that it might be for bigger and more important purposes. Other issues have made me concerned. The ecomony, I think it will end with the dollar going to zero. An economic collapse could cause civil unrest. The military/homeland security has been training for civil unrest/martial law. D&C 45 says that a desolating sickness will cover the land and that war will be everywhere except in zion. Haliburton building detention centers all over is weird. I have to admit, these are exciting times and I think there are a lot of signes suggesting that some serious stuff will be hitting the fan in the future. So I'm keeping an open mind and watching with interest.


I don't see what the big deal is with the church buying land for girls camps. The land they are buying for these camps are not that much and not very often. I think the problem stems from one or two accounts of the church buying land and building camps and then the conspiracy theorists start assuming that it is a major deal and blows it way out of proportion. here is an official website about the new Heber girls camp facility-

http://www.hebervalleycamp.org/

Now, from what i understand, the church is placing more of an emphasis on the youth programs- funding more $$$ intot he programs. I am not sure how many LDS people now live in northern Utah along the wasatch front but I am guessing that these little camps are not going to be used for anything like some apocolyptic "tent city" when the supposed United Nations takes over our country. Less than 1% of utah mormons could fit in the girls camps. I don't but it- I believe it is all a conspiracy.

As for the economy, the LDS church operating out of SLC is wholly dependent upon the tithing of it's saints which in large part is funded by a strong American economy. If saints pay their tithes they are protected to some degree. It would be futile to believe that the economy would fail when the church is going through such a great expansion phase. The Lords work- building temples, missionary work, etc is dependent to some large degree upon the economy of this country being stable. I believe the Lord works to protect the economy so that his church can continue to flourish.

As I understand, America is "Zion" and the last time I checked, this country still is a Christian nation. We haven't resorted to casting out and stoning the prophest yet and so we are protected. In fact, Americans for the most part embrace their evangilacal leaders.

As for the detention centers to be contracted by Haliburton, here is the official press release. I can't see where something like this goes to the conspiracy extremes that people talk about.-

http://www.halliburt...nws_012406.html

Almost every conspiracy theory I have looked into is based off of partial truths, lies, bad or politically charged opinions or misguided information.
Now I am not saying that there isn't a conspiracy that is actually happening with the girls camps or the detention centers, But I am looking at it from the logical side and assuming that nothing out of the ordinary is happening- no actual conspiracy seems apparent. Conspiracy theorists always say- "it's happeneing, just wait and see". I am middle aged now and have been waiting for that "just wait and see" my whole life and as to date, the only real surprize in my lifetime was the fall of communism in Russia and East Germany both of which are in complete opposition to the conspiracy theorists prophecies.
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#42 Rob Osborn

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 02:24 PM

double post.

Edited by Rob Osborn, 31 December 2010 - 02:25 PM.

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#43 DH

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 02:43 PM

Eh? Maybe I'm out of the loop (or perhaps it's just because I live outside of Utah?), but I've never heard anything about tent cities in a Church-related context. Strange.
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#44 ERayR

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 11:47 PM

I'm not certain of the origin. I'm guessing that its Rodger K Young who claims he saw a vision of the tent cities and then others jumping onboard with similar claims. I read a book about a near death experience (Sarah Menet) who claims that she saw vision of tribulations prior to the second coming and one of the things she saw was good people gathering to places of safety with meager supplies and living in tents. She claims most of these gatherings were taking place in the western states.

I normally would not place much weight in such claims but I do think the church's persuit of buying land all over for girls camps is really weird and it makes sense to me that it might be for bigger and more important purposes. Other issues have made me concerned. The ecomony, I think it will end with the dollar going to zero. An economic collapse could cause civil unrest. The military/homeland security has been training for civil unrest/martial law. D&C 45 says that a desolating sickness will cover the land and that war will be everywhere except in zion. Haliburton building detention centers all over is weird. I have to admit, these are exciting times and I think there are a lot of signes suggesting that some serious stuff will be hitting the fan in the future. So I'm keeping an open mind and watching with interest.


I wouldn't count on the girls camp purchases as being much of a place of refuge for people living in tents. Most of these camps, that I know about, are in places of heavy snowfall and very cold temperatures in the winter. Also they are in remote areas which would be hard to service as far as supplies, medical services, etc.
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#45 Rob Osborn

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 12:13 AM

Eh? Maybe I'm out of the loop (or perhaps it's just because I live outside of Utah?), but I've never heard anything about tent cities in a Church-related context. Strange.



No, what's strange is having it preached to you in class at church. Now that's strange! People should leave their politically or ultra conservative charged theories at home.
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#46 PacMan

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 12:04 AM

So no one around here actually believes it?

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#47 nicolasconnault

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 02:48 AM

So no one around here actually believes it?

Your in disappointment, yet in greater relief,

PacMan


Actually we all believe in it, and we're typing these posts from our wi-fi stations in our air-conditioned tents in the Salt Lake valley. We're running out of space here so we want to make sure no one else believes in this doctrine... Don't tell anyone!
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#48 Brenda

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:43 AM

Huh?? Who? What? I've never heard of tent cities, except for the homeless and refugee camps. Good grief. Is this some sort of Mormon survivalist thing? In Utah, or where?


(I feel so out of the loop.)
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#49 Rob Osborn

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 04:27 PM

Huh?? Who? What? I've never heard of tent cities, except for the homeless and refugee camps. Good grief. Is this some sort of Mormon survivalist thing? In Utah, or where?


(I feel so out of the loop.)


It's all part of the LDS underground movement. This movement is happening within the church. The conspiracies are very abundant in these groups. Some of these people meet in private settings to secretly/privately discuss the impending doom soon to fall our nation. They often pass along non-official LDS material such as books, DVD's, pamphlets, etc. and have these materials circulated. There is no real official head to this movement although sites like LDSAVOW- http://www.ldsavow.com/ have been one of the main places of internet gathering for this movement.

I call it an underground movement because it seeks to spread this propaganda entirely outside of official LDS authority but yet claim sources within the LDS church as being the backbone for it's authority. It is an "underground" movement because it seeks to gather information relative tot he church as a whole but does so without the necessary authority, purpose or calling. Members or groups of members have no authority to speak for the church as a whole or receive revelation for the church regarding it's proper placement in the welfare of it's members. These underground movement groups often place an emphasis on such things as the "white horse prophecy", a supposed church historical prophecy that the church has already stated it does not endorse nor uphold as official church doctrine.-

http://beta-newsroom...ical-neutrality

The harm of following these movements is that it places an emphasis or motivation of prepardness not in accordance with what the current prophets reveal for our times. It is a classic case of "missing the mark". There is nothing wrong with establishing a food storage or establishing our voice in the community to uphold the values of moral or religious belief or even to uphold our constitution. But these underground movements seek to plot a conspiracy of invalid beliefs in the saints to harbor fear and produce undue political hatred towards others which is completely out of harmony with the church and its teachings. s
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#50 Brenda

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 10:51 PM

It's all part of the LDS underground movement. This movement is happening within the church. The conspiracies are very abundant in these groups. Some of these people meet in private settings to secretly/privately discuss the impending doom soon to fall our nation. They often pass along non-official LDS material such as books, DVD's, pamphlets, etc. and have these materials circulated. There is no real official head to this movement although sites like LDSAVOW- http://www.ldsavow.com/ have been one of the main places of internet gathering for this movement.

I call it an underground movement because it seeks to spread this propaganda entirely outside of official LDS authority but yet claim sources within the LDS church as being the backbone for it's authority. It is an "underground" movement because it seeks to gather information relative tot he church as a whole but does so without the necessary authority, purpose or calling. Members or groups of members have no authority to speak for the church as a whole or receive revelation for the church regarding it's proper placement in the welfare of it's members. These underground movement groups often place an emphasis on such things as the "white horse prophecy", a supposed church historical prophecy that the church has already stated it does not endorse nor uphold as official church doctrine.-

http://beta-newsroom...ical-neutrality

The harm of following these movements is that it places an emphasis or motivation of prepardness not in accordance with what the current prophets reveal for our times. It is a classic case of "missing the mark". There is nothing wrong with establishing a food storage or establishing our voice in the community to uphold the values of moral or religious belief or even to uphold our constitution. But these underground movements seek to plot a conspiracy of invalid beliefs in the saints to harbor fear and produce undue political hatred towards others which is completely out of harmony with the church and its teachings. s


Thanks. Wasn't it Elder Oaks who said, anything we need to know, or hear from the Prophet, we will hear in General Conference? Very wise. We just need to stay focused on Pres. Monson. When he moves into a tent, I'll take it seriously.

Thanks again.

Edited by Brenda, 02 January 2011 - 10:52 PM.

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#51 SeattleGhostWriter

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:06 PM

The only type of "Tent Cities" that I am well aware of are those tent cities concerning the Homeless Population. In the Greater Seattle Area, there are several "Tent Cities" that are established to provide shelter for those who are otherwise unable to have access to affordable living. In this sense, there might be members of the Church who do live in Tent Cities because they are not able to afford rent/mortgage. Take for instance the fact that the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage has cost many people a loss of home.


The question is this: How do we as members of the Church provide service, assistance, comfort, compassion, et all to those who have no other place to live but a tent? We need to not past judgment - especially attempt to associate such members to any "Fringe" or "underground" movement within the Church.


According to the National Coalition for the Homeless, Tent Cities are on the rise. They attempted to do a national study and report on Tent Cities in America, yet when they began on the West Coast, they discovered that there were so many encampments. One such Tent City was the focus of an Oprah Winfrey Show.


Washington state has four to five separate tent cities that total a population of approximately 345 people. California having approximately 1000 people in various tent cities.


Some of them are mobile and have difficulty finding locations for their encampments.


I personally would not be surprised that there is going to be an increase throughout the coming years of people moving into tent cities, and these cities becoming more and more prevalent than they already are. This is due in the cost of housing, increase of cost of living, and the inability of affordable housing (even though Affordable Housing right now is not very affordable for the majority of those plagued with poverty level living). Part of this is due to the fact that there are hardly any jobs (due to the fact of companies outsourcing majority of their work overseas), the decrease in the level of US production and manufacturing, and a modern social dilemma of Credit Abuse spending.
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#52 Rob Osborn

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:11 PM

Thanks. Wasn't it Elder Oaks who said, anything we need to know, or hear from the Prophet, we will hear in General Conference? Very wise. We just need to stay focused on Pres. Monson. When he moves into a tent, I'll take it seriously.

Thanks again.


And I am just willing to bet that we will be protected in the stakes of Zion that we live in. America is a great place to live in where we have protection and rights, at least for those who live righteously. America is blessed. God would not allow evil and conspirng men of such magnitude to overun this land in some great conspiracy. There are always two or more sides to every story and it would do some people good to read both sides rather than just believe the one side they want to hear. People who believe in this conspiracy are a people who seek to live in fear.
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#53 LeSellers

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:01 AM

And I am just willing to bet that we will be protected in the stakes of Zion that we live in.

We will, provided we are observing the commandments and counsels of the Lord.

Do you have your two-year's supply of food, money, fuel, and clothing? Is your financial house in order? Is your house paid for? If not, you may not be as protected as you dream.

Last year, at our stake preparedness fair, the stake Preparedeness Specialist told us that the Brethren have stopped talking about preparedness* because, after 150 years of such talks, few of us are listening, and now the Lord will preach His own sermons via fires, floods, and weather.

* President Hinckley's talk, "To the men and boys", was not about preparedness, per se, and did not refute this statement, not only because long before, but because it was about a different piece of the puzzle.

However you may interpret this information, the reason for tent cities is a place of refuge for the time when cities are riot zones (South Central LA, anyone?) because people do not have food, the stores are not supplied daily (as they must be to feed so many), when there is no electricity for days or weeks on end (can't pump gas without electricity), when there is little or no water (flush toilets won't work). If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear. A tent city will be much like a small city of Zion: each family will bring its own resources, but there will be a communality so the families will be able to exist. the problem is, when the cities are uninhabitable, as I am sure many will be, there will not be enough to share. When Brigham Young crossed the Mississippi in 1846, his two year's supply of food was gone in a week or so because so many Saints had ignored his counsel to have their own. While those in the cities will want to share, there will not be enough, there just will not be enough. When it comes down to choosing between my grandchildren and you, I would have a hard time choosing you over them. How many people, even Zion people, would feed you first ahead of their own families? Few, very, very few.

America is a great place to live in where we have protection and rights, at least for those who live righteously.

If is the issue. See above.

And, if the scenario is correct, and if Joseph, Brigham and other prophets were correct (as I believe them to be), USmerica will not be the place we once knew. Our rights will not be protected, our traditional protections, police, National Guard (aka militias), and so on will not be there for us. The courts would be swamped, jails straining to hold the malefactors who would steal before plowing, take before building.

And if a the police chief was hungry himself, would he scruple to starve rather than use his city-supplied pistol to threaten you for your food supply? Perhaps, but I would not put anything important, like my wife's life, on the line.

America is blessed. God would not allow evil and conspirng men of such magnitude to overun this land in some great conspiracy.

I do not believe this at all. See 3 Nephi 1~8.

The whole of the Book of Mormon, from Alma through Moroni (and especially Ether) is the tale of just such a conspiracy, in America by evil and conspiring men to overthrown the freedoms of the people. Sodom and Gomorrah were once-blessed places, too, but the evil men in them were not sufficient for the Lord to stop the destruction of these cities.

There are always two or more sides to every story and it would do some people good to read both sides rather than just believe the one side they want to hear. People who believe in this conspiracy are a people who seek to live in fear.

No one "seek[s] to live in fear", good sir. Those of us who see the potential of great devastation, whether we are "tent city" proponents or not, are not living in fear, we are preparing for the worst, and we know that our preparations may not be needed, but they may be just the same.

If we do what the Lord has commanded, including getting our houses in order, storing the food, clothing, fuel, and money as the Apostles of the Lord have been counseling since 1840 or earlier, then, and only then, can we have the blessings. If not, we have no promise.

Lehi
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#54 Rob Osborn

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 12:38 PM

We will, provided we are observing the commandments and counsels of the Lord.

Do you have your two-year's supply of food, money, fuel, and clothing? Is your financial house in order? Is your house paid for? If not, you may not be as protected as you dream.

Last year, at our stake preparedness fair, the stake Preparedeness Specialist told us that the Brethren have stopped talking about preparedness* because, after 150 years of such talks, few of us are listening, and now the Lord will preach His own sermons via fires, floods, and weather.

* President Hinckley's talk, "To the men and boys", was not about preparedness, per se, and did not refute this statement, not only because long before, but because it was about a different piece of the puzzle.

However you may interpret this information, the reason for tent cities is a place of refuge for the time when cities are riot zones (South Central LA, anyone?) because people do not have food, the stores are not supplied daily (as they must be to feed so many), when there is no electricity for days or weeks on end (can't pump gas without electricity), when there is little or no water (flush toilets won't work). If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear. A tent city will be much like a small city of Zion: each family will bring its own resources, but there will be a communality so the families will be able to exist. the problem is, when the cities are uninhabitable, as I am sure many will be, there will not be enough to share. When Brigham Young crossed the Mississippi in 1846, his two year's supply of food was gone in a week or so because so many Saints had ignored his counsel to have their own. While those in the cities will want to share, there will not be enough, there just will not be enough. When it comes down to choosing between my grandchildren and you, I would have a hard time choosing you over them. How many people, even Zion people, would feed you first ahead of their own families? Few, very, very few.


If is the issue. See above.

And, if the scenario is correct, and if Joseph, Brigham and other prophets were correct (as I believe them to be), USmerica will not be the place we once knew. Our rights will not be protected, our traditional protections, police, National Guard (aka militias), and so on will not be there for us. The courts would be swamped, jails straining to hold the malefactors who would steal before plowing, take before building.

And if a the police chief was hungry himself, would he scruple to starve rather than use his city-supplied pistol to threaten you for your food supply? Perhaps, but I would not put anything important, like my wife's life, on the line.


I do not believe this at all. See 3 Nephi 1~8.

The whole of the Book of Mormon, from Alma through Moroni (and especially Ether) is the tale of just such a conspiracy, in America by evil and conspiring men to overthrown the freedoms of the people. Sodom and Gomorrah were once-blessed places, too, but the evil men in them were not sufficient for the Lord to stop the destruction of these cities.


No one "seek[s] to live in fear", good sir. Those of us who see the potential of great devastation, whether we are "tent city" proponents or not, are not living in fear, we are preparing for the worst, and we know that our preparations may not be needed, but they may be just the same.

If we do what the Lord has commanded, including getting our houses in order, storing the food, clothing, fuel, and money as the Apostles of the Lord have been counseling since 1840 or earlier, then, and only then, can we have the blessings. If not, we have no promise.

Lehi


My understanding of things is much different. America is not going to fall or fail. We are not going to go live in tent cities in this country because of some commy plot to take over the world. The promises I read in the Book of Mormon have a much different outcome than what some others want to believe.
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#55 LeSellers

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:44 PM

My understanding of things is much different.

An understanding to which you are entitled. However, if I am wrong, the only things that are lost are time and effort (and a little money, which is the same thing). If you are wrong ... .

America is not going to fall or fail.


We have only the promise of Ether 2:12
"Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written."

I am not seeing all that much serving going on.

We are not going to go live in tent cities in this country because of some commy plot to take over the world.

There are more evils in the world than socialism.

The promises I read in the Book of Mormon have a much different outcome than what some others want to believe.

I'd be pleased to see something else on the matter.

Lehi
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#56 Rob Osborn

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:18 PM

An understanding to which you are entitled. However, if I am wrong, the only things that are lost are time and effort (and a little money, which is the same thing). If you are wrong ... .


We have only the promise of Ether 2:12
"Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written."

I am not seeing all that much serving going on.


Then open your eyes. Americans donated over 300 billion to charities last year alone- more than any other nation on earth. There are countless programs in America that are centered around service like the BSA, Religious organizations, Clubs, organizations, companies, etc. Besides that the majority of American citizens have a belief in God- we are a Christian nation. I see lots of serving going on.



There are more evils in the world than socialism.


I'd be pleased to see something else on the matter.

Lehi


When we begin to understand that America is the general "Zion" as spoken of by the prophets then we can see the blessings afforded us as we serve Christ. Here is a scripture-

68 And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 45:68)

Now let me give a brief actual story of my brother and a fulifilling of this scripture-

http://www.sltrib.co...ys-ray.html.csp

The three refugees literally fled their homeland because they did not want to take up arms against their fellow brothers and sisters. Through the Catholic refugee placement program they came to SLC which is Zion (or a stake of Zion) where they now live peacefully. The promises made to Zion are abundant in scripture.

It is sad that often times the news spends the majority of their time on all the negative stories and not so much on the good stories. The truth is that more good stuff than bad stuff happens in this country, most of which goes un-noticed.
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#57 MorningStar

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:24 PM

Add me to the list of people who has only heard of "tent cities" when it comes to shelter for the homeless.
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#58 semlogo

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:34 PM

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"We have heard men who hold the Priesthood remark, that they would do any thing they were told to do by those who presided over them, if they knew it was wrong: but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly...When the Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience, as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves, and wish to pave the way to accomplish that wrong; or else because they have done wrong, and wish to use the cloak of their authority to cover it with, lest it should be discovered by their superiors, who would require an atonement at their hands." - Joseph Smith


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