17 replies to this topic

[Scott Lloyd]

There's been some talk about the address President Packer gave on Dec. 19 at his home ward.

I thought the board might be interested in the Church News report of his talk.

[mfbukowski]

Scott Lloyd, on 27 December 2010 - 11:29 AM, said:

There's been some talk about the address President Packer gave on Dec. 19 at his home ward.

I thought the board might be interested in the Church News report of his talk.

Especially interesting to me was his calculation that Jesus was one of at least 6 siblings.

Also interesting was the statement, of course consistent with established doctrine, was that there was "no beginning and no end".  That is a very straightforward statement which clearly separates us from Creedal Christians.

Also heart warming that Sister Packer complimented the Deacons.   They won't forget that one!

I can't imagine what it would be like to be Elder Packer's bishop!  Yikes!

Edited by mfbukowski, 27 December 2010 - 12:31 PM.

[Scott Lloyd]

I was struck by the fervency of his testimony. To me it was reminiscent of the witness of Christ that Bruce R. McConkie bore in general conference not long before he died.

Also, the expression about the view of eternity that prophets and apostles have gave me pause. It seemed that President Packer was saying about as much as he appropriately could on that subject without going into further detail.

[Ahab]

mfbukowski, on 27 December 2010 - 12:31 PM, said:

I can't imagine what it would be like to be Elder Packer's bishop!  Yikes!

It would be a bishop's dream, because he would already be doing everything the bishop would want him to do as an active member in the Church.

[Duncan]

Ahab, on 27 December 2010 - 01:26 PM, said:

It would be a bishop's dream, because he would already be doing everything the bishop would want him to do as an active member in the Church.

I used to know a fellow who was at one time President Joseph Fielding Smith's home teacher. This teenager at the time went out and had to teach Pres. Smith the article that he had written so what is this kid going to say, but after it was all over Pres. Smith said that it was nice to hear how what he wrote was being received by members

[ERMD]

Part of his testimony of Christ struck me.

"...I know him when I see him..."

Significant.

Edited by ERMD, 27 December 2010 - 04:48 PM.

[LDSToronto]

"Everything about the celebration, except the things that are creeping in now that are almost pagan, is for families, for little children"

What's he talking about - almost all of Christmas is pagan; I'm curious what Pres. Packer finds to be creeping in...

H.

[LDSToronto]

Scott Lloyd, on 27 December 2010 - 01:23 PM, said:

Also, the expression about the view of eternity that prophets and apostles have gave me pause. It seemed that President Packer was saying about as much as he appropriately could on that subject without going into further detail.

I found that striking, too, and I find myself asking the question, "Why not reveal more?" If the prophets and apostles have this view of eternity, wouldn't it make sense to share it with mankind, and not simply reveal 'teasers'?

H.

[Sky]

I thought that President Packer gave an awe-inspiring testimony.  How blessed we are to have living apostles and prophets on the earth!  They are definitely needed.  It�s too bad that he is so often misunderstood and maligned.

[Stargazer]

LDSToronto, on 27 December 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

I found that striking, too, and I find myself asking the question, "Why not reveal more?" If the prophets and apostles have this view of eternity, wouldn't it make sense to share it with mankind, and not simply reveal 'teasers'?

H.

I am convinced that is for two reasons:

1. If we do not get it the same way he got it, we will not be able to hold onto it -- or appreciate it
2. That the world would trample it under their feet, to their own detriment

With regard to #1, see this.

Quote

There is no doubt, if a person lives according to the revelations given to God's people, he may have the Spirit of the Lord to signify to him his will, and to guide and to direct him in the discharge of his duties, in his temporal as well as his spiritual exercises. I am satisfied, however, that in this respect, we live far beneath our privileges. (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 32)

What we receive without effort, we only lightly esteem.

[Scott Lloyd]

Stargazer, on 27 December 2010 - 11:49 PM, said:

I am convinced that is for two reasons:

1. If we do not get it the same way he got it, we will not be able to hold onto it -- or appreciate it
2. That the world would trample it under their feet, to their own detriment

With regard to #1, see this.



What we receive without effort, we only lightly esteem.

Well said.

To this I would add the citation from 1 Corinthians 2:11 (Joseph Smith Translation):

Quote

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man except he has the Spirit of God.

Also, verse 14,

Quote

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[PaulBoyerFan]

LDSToronto, on 27 December 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

I found that striking, too, and I find myself asking the question, "Why not reveal more?" If the prophets and apostles have this view of eternity, wouldn't it make sense to share it with mankind, and not simply reveal 'teasers'?

H.

I think that you are setting the bar too high with metaphysical insight.  LDS leaders appear to be making some baby steps toward common sense and good judgment.

[Ahab]

LDSToronto, on 27 December 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

I found that striking, too, and I find myself asking the question, "Why not reveal more?" If the prophets and apostles have this view of eternity, wouldn't it make sense to share it with mankind, and not simply reveal 'teasers'?

H.

The "view" the prophets and apostles have is "the eternal perspective", and if we saw what was waiting for us later most of us would kill ourselves to get there.

Now, you wouldn't want that to happen, would you???

[LeSellers]

LDSToronto, on 27 December 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

"Why not reveal more?" If the prophets and apostles have this view of eternity, wouldn't it make sense to share it with mankind, and not simply reveal 'teasers'?

Where much is given, much is required.

Many people, I'd say most, would be unable to obey the laws associated with the higher views of exaltation, etc. But, knowing more and not meeting that threshold, they'd receive a much harsher condemnation than doing exactly the same things (or less) without the knowledge.

God reveals these tings to each of us individually as we prepare for them. Those who do not receive them, are not expected to obey.

The "teasers" you lament are designed, I believe, to prod us into acting and asking, to preparing ourselves to get them, and that is exactly what God wants:

Moses 1:39 said:

For behold, this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

God does not want us to fail.

Lehi

[LDSToronto]

Ahab, on 28 December 2010 - 11:06 AM, said:

The "view" the prophets and apostles have is "the eternal perspective", and if we saw what was waiting for us later most of us would kill ourselves to get there.

Now, you wouldn't want that to happen, would you???

lol! Nice try, but I guess just as plausible as any other reason...

H.

[LDSToronto]

Stargazer, on 27 December 2010 - 11:49 PM, said:

I am convinced that is for two reasons:

1. If we do not get it the same way he got it, we will not be able to hold onto it -- or appreciate it
2. That the world would trample it under their feet, to their own detriment

But wouldn't this apply to all things the prophets reveal to us? I go to the temple, follow the word of wisdom, avoid pornography, and do a host of other things, and know a host of other things, based on what was revealed to prophets; I obtained none of those things the same way that the prophets obtained them.

H.

[LDSToronto]

LeSellers, on 28 December 2010 - 03:43 PM, said:

Many people, I'd say most, would be unable to obey the laws associated with the higher views of exaltation, etc. But, knowing more and not meeting that threshold, they'd receive a much harsher condemnation than doing exactly the same things (or less) without the knowledge.

God reveals these tings to each of us individually as we prepare for them. Those who do not receive them, are not expected to obey.

Perhaps, but then again, I'd say the temple covenants are quite all encompassing. Living up to those covenants, with any degree of discipline that approaches perfection, is pretty hard to to already. I'd suggest that exposing more of a view of eternity, as opposed to the limited view that we currently have, would motivate us, not hinder us, in our quest to follow God's commandments.

H.

[Scott Lloyd]

LDSToronto, on 29 December 2010 - 09:01 AM, said:

Perhaps, but then again, I'd say the temple covenants are quite all encompassing. Living up to those covenants, with any degree of discipline that approaches perfection, is pretty hard to to already. I'd suggest that exposing more of a view of eternity, as opposed to the limited view that we currently have, would motivate us, not hinder us, in our quest to follow God's commandments.

H.

The typical pattern of the Lord is that the broad view of eternity follows faith, obedience and commitment, not the other way around. A purpose of our mortal existence is to develop faith.

Edited by Scott Lloyd, 29 December 2010 - 05:12 PM.