425 replies to this topic

[Vance]

mercyngrace, on 08 December 2010 - 10:15 AM, said:

I just want to add here that one of the fundamental problems with government "entitlement" programs is that those who fund them resent it and those who benefit temporally from them don't benefit in an exalting way.

Agreed!!!

When it was forced/confiscated from the "giver" and when the receiver receives it from a non-human, faceless, heartless bureaucracy then neither is edified.  The "giver" becomes resentful and the receiver grows an entitled mentality.  Entitled to the fruits of the labor of others.  (Is out-right theft far behind?)

Quote

  The reason consecration is effective is that the one who receives knows that he is blessed because other want him to be saved.  This love begets love.  The distribution of goods is an act of love, not compulsion or resentment.  It is personal.  It is individual. It is Christ-like.  Giving money without love isn't exalting - it's demeaning.

[mercyngrace]

Vance,
I want to clarify that I do think all people are deserving of our care, love, concern, and temporal succor.  I think the entitlement mentality you refer to grows out of something else.  I think it is born of a degraded sense of self that comes from being resented for being a burden, whether or not one contributed to that circumstance.  When people feel marginalized, they feel justified in their anger, covetous, and 'entitled'. What ends up happening is that a vicious, self-perpetuating cycle creates classes of people who feel almost innate enmity for one another.  This is not from God and it ends with people enslaved - led carefully away into captivity.

True compassion changes both the giver and the receiver.  Begrudging giving and greed degrade.  Rationalized covetousness and angry class envy degrade.  Someone has to be willing to stop the cycle and the only way to do so was illustrated perfectly by Christ who, being rich, became impoverished for us.  It can be motivated by nothing less than Christlike love and it can require nothing less personal sacrifice. And it must be done freely. This is why the government can never create Zion.

[Vance]

Mercy,

I don't pretend to know the causes of the entitlement mentality, I only know that it exists.  I agree that it is very destructive.

The problem is that a change of heart is needed for the "entitled" to break the cycle.  I think we both know that continuing the government dole is not a productive way to accomplish it.

[BCSpace]

Quote

The problem is that a change of heart is needed for the "entitled" to break the cycle. I think we both know that continuing the government dole is not a productive way to accomplish it.

That is correct.  In fact, "the dole" is in opposition LDS doctrine and the whole idea of the LoC is to move us away from it.  From the official LDS doctrine that I link to in my signature:

Quote

As this program is followed, the Saints will continue to develop those characteristics which will enable them again to build Zion all over the world. Elder Bruce R. McConkie showed how these principles will move the Church toward the redemption of Zion:

“As the Saints of the Most High we shall strive to ‘stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world’ ( D&C 78:14 ). Our only hope is to free ourselves from the bondage of sin, to rid ourselves from the chains of darkness, to rise above the world, to live godly and upright lives.

“Relying always on the Lord, we must become independent of the world. We must be self-reliant. Using the agency God has given us, we must work out our own economic and temporal problems. . . .

“We must maintain our own health, sow our own gardens, store our own food, educate and train ourselves to handle the daily affairs of life. No one else can work out our salvation for us, either temporally or spiritually.

“We are here on earth to care for the needs of our family members. Wives have claim on their husbands for their support, children upon their parents, parents upon their children, brothers upon each other, and relatives upon their kin.

“It is the aim of the Church to help the Saints to care for themselves and, where need be, to make food and clothing and other necessities available, lest the Saints turn to the doles and evils of Babylon. To help care for the poor among them the Church must operate farms, grow vineyards, run dairies, manage factories, and ten thousand other things—all in such a way as to be independent of the powers of evil in the world.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1979, p. 132; or Ensign, May 1979, p. 93 .)

Quote

“Third is work . Work brings happiness, self-esteem, and prosperity. It is the means of all accomplishment; it is the opposite of idleness. We are commanded to work. (See Gen. 3:19 .) Attempts to obtain our temporal, social, emotional, or spiritual well-being by means of a dole violate the divine mandate that we should work for what we receive. Work should be the ruling principle in the lives of our Church membership. (See D&C 42:42 ; 75:29 ; 68:30–32 ; 56:17 .)

“Fourth is self-reliance . The Church and its members are commanded by the Lord to be self-reliant and independent. (See D&C 78:13–14 .)

“The responsibility for each person’s social, emotional, spiritual, physical, or economic well-being rests first upon himself, second upon his family, and third upon the Church if he is a faithful member thereof.

“No true Latter-day Saint, while physically or emotionally able will voluntarily shift the burden of his own or his family’s well-being to someone else. So long as he can, under the inspiration of the Lord and with his own labors, he will supply himself and his family with the spiritual and temporal necessities of life. (See 1 Timothy 5:8 .)

[mercyngrace]

Vance, on 08 December 2010 - 01:42 PM, said:

Mercy,

I don't pretend to know the causes of the entitlement mentality, I only know that it exists.  I agree that it is very destructive.

You don't have to guess.  You just have to apply the same principles Christ did towards the salvation of men.  We must make allowances for those who know no better just as Christ did when He died for us while we were yet enemies.

Quote

The problem is that a change of heart is needed for the "entitled" to break the cycle.  I think we both know that continuing the government dole is not a productive way to accomplish it.

I think the change of heart is needed on both sides.

We have to be "cheerful givers" because that shows we recognize where our blessings truly come from.  Otherwise, when we think our blessings are a result of merely our own labors, we offend God with our ingratitude. (I'm not linking all the scripture refs here but I know you know the scriptures well enough to recognize the genesis of my thoughts.)

Furthermore, I think both sides are being pitted against each other by the adversary of us all and those who do his bidding here on earth.

Consider this though:  If a poor man does all he can to subsist and still cannot provide, if he never has an entitlement attitude and labors with all his might, and those who can share choose not to, - a good man and his family perish.  So no change in attitude among the impoverished will provide a full belly.

I realize that to some on this board, I must come off as a "bleeding heart" but the reality is I have long since left the left/right dichotomy behind.  My only desire is the salvation and exaltation of God's children.

Just for fun:
Here's a little experiment you can try the next time you see someone in true need.  Give them what they need with a cheerful heart, begrudging nothing and demonstrating the pure love of Christ.  When they thank you, put your arm around them and say "You would do the same for me."  See what happens. For many people, just realizing that you see the potential good in them is enough to bring tears to their eyes.  Most people look at me with surprise and say "Yes! Yes I would!"  And when I've been in a position to need help of any kind and I call on some of those same people, they say things like "I am honored that you allowed me to help." or "Is there anything else you need? I have more to give."

Being on the receiving end makes people feel powerless.  You give them that power and dignity back when you recognize that were roles reversed they are capable of being charitable.  It creates a whole new dynamic between giver and receiver - places both on equal footing - and creates a bond of brotherhood.

I learned this principle first from Sister Mary Ellen Edmonds of the Gen RS board years ago and then again years later in a professional capacity.  It has never once failed me.

I said this already but if you try this experiment, perhaps you will see what I do.  This distinctly personal interaction is radically different than what we see happening through state entitlements.  The impersonal nature of government programs does not create this bond and the dehumanizing nature of being herded through social programs (or forced to pay for them without reaping the tangible and personal satisfaction of charitable relationships) breeds contempt.

Edited by mercyngrace, 08 December 2010 - 02:31 PM.

[mercyngrace]

"Food is one part. Love is another part."

http://www.facebook....?v=464334032902