True, it is talking about the privilege not the right.
On the other hand consider John 20:21, where the Apostles received a commission from the Holy Ghost by Christ breathing on them. Later in Acts they received the Baptism of Fire, another function or office of the Holy Ghost.
A careful examination of scripture shows that there are many cases where the Gifts of the Holy Ghost/Spirit has been given direct by God with out LOH.
18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. 19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Mt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
There are many offices and functions of the Holy Ghost. Yet in the Acts 10 account the hearers of the word received the same kind of Gift of the Holy Ghost as did the Apostles.
When it comes to LOH-- we can see other functions of the LOH as in HEALINGS were the common practice is to Heal with LOH. But Healing from God by God's disciples as agents with authority in other cases does not come by LOH. LOH is not an absolute necessity, though a common practice in healing. This idea can be transfered to LOH and the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and NO LOH for the Gift too.
Ac 28:8 And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.
Acts 20: 9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him.
Lu 8:47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
Mark 5:23 And besought him greatly, saying, My little daughter lieth at the point of death: I pray thee, come and lay thy hands on her, that she may be healed; and she shall live. ( as the account turns out)
41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.
John 11: 43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Luke 4: 39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.
The general principle is all who ask God will receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost.
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts
unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him...
There is no scripural rule that demands that the Gift (right) of the Holy Ghost has to be given by LOH, even though a few case histories show it being given that way. Other cases show it came with no LOH. The same is true of LOH and Healings, some healing comes in scriptural records by LOH and others do not.
Again, this verse doesn’t support your point the way you think it does. First off, no one is given the calling of “overseers” without having the priesthood. They would have been called to be “overseers” by revelation from God through the Holy Ghost. So yes, they, worthy priesthood holders were made “overseers” by direction from the Holy Ghost.
Remember I am not against the LOH or Authority, but rather insistence by certain Churches claiming to have the only
proper process or kind of LOH or Authority to do such things.
There just is not enough information in the Bible to establish a rule that says the LOH is required, and cases of people getting the Gift of the Holy Ghost by other means exist in the Biblical record as happening without LOH.
The topic of Authority
would open up a whole exposition on kinds of authority in New Testament. Perhaps should be another thread. But here are a few basics. --------
In the New Testament, Christian authority comes primarily from the Holy Ghost. This is also called charismatic authority
in some circles. Church Administrative authority is also required but has different roots than charismatic authority. When Apostles got sent on Missions, the primary call came from the Holy Ghost and was charismatic in nature. And an the administrative command did not come down from the original 12 Apostles to the Missionary.
Likewise, the call of Paul to be an apostle came directly from the Lord without either priesthood or hierarchical church authority (Galatians 1:1,11,12). In fact, when he and Barnabas were called on their first missions, they were called by God's prophets in Antioch, not from Peter, James, or John in Jerusalem (Acts 13:1-4).
Acts 13: 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia;
How could Apostles be sent by non-Apostles (Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen) who were ‘prophets and teachers’? The passage says that the Holy Ghost sent Paul and Barnabas, How could these men be ‘prophets’ is not first Apostles?—as the LDS pattern dictates??
So again, nothing in that verse contradicts LDS doctrine or practice.
I have no desire to claim that the LDS are Wrong in LOH generally. However I am against any Church or group that Claims it owns rights to the only way of doing LOH, or is the sole owner and Proprietor of the only proper process of human salvation and or relationship with God.-
And it depends on whether you are talking about the right or the privilege.
This is partly true. There are a number of ministries, functions and associated offices of the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost operates in a number of kinds of Authority.
I. Traditional Authority
is that which is passed down according to family and tribe.( Patriarchal Authority) OT
II. Rational/Legal Authority as beauracratic authority
, based on what is written in a Constitution or set of Bylaws. The Nation of Israel--- “The Law” Part of the Law and the Prophets
III. Charismatic Authority
is that which is acknowledged as a gift of God. ( John the Baptist- Jesus) The Prophets part of the Law and the Prophets.
It is a necessity for the conveyance of the right. It is NOT necessary for the privilege.
When a person gets Patriarchal Authority their are rights, and the Holy Ghost supports that right.
When a Aaronic Priests got Legal Authority, the Holy Ghost supported those set of rights.
Likewise Charismatic Authority.
But the Holy Ghost does do more than that-- it also acts as a witness for people.
Just look to whom the epistle was written. It either says “to the saints” or “to the church” or to the “elect” or some other indicator that they are members of the church.
So then if one obeys, one repents, is baptized, and the Viola!!! LOH for the gift of (right to) the Holy Ghost.
Yes this LOH can be so under certain situations ( but not all) Such as, if a Church loves the Lord, and its leadership are godly men, and that is how the Church has its members demonstrate obedience. Then the rebel who will not obey the Administrative Authority of the Church will likely not be blessed by God with the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Because of that rebellion against the Church overseers who have Administrative Authority. For God commanded human culture to have Administrative Authority, and even so in the Church.
To this we can agree.
Yet if the overseers do not have this system in place, then I submit that
the Gift of the Holy Ghost can be given with out LOH.
Edited by Hick Preacher, 10 November 2010 - 11:22 PM.