Vane in <<< >>>> quotes
<<<I don't think that is the right question to ask. To me the question should be "when does the acquisition of saving knowledge begin?">>>
The influence of the Holy Ghost is everywhere, and in all people, even the profane to some degree.
This is evident from Romans 1:20
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
And in John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
So the knowledge of salvation, by the Holy Ghost is to a small degree in all men.
This is because the Holy Ghost has many different offices in which He serves.
So human salvation begins at birth in some sense-- because the influence of the Spirit it there touching all humans to some small degree.
<<<No. But for most of the people that have lived so far, that won't occur while in mortality. We can only assume that the Holy Ghost operates in the spirit world in the same fashion as in this world. By the end of the Millennium, everyone will have received the "LOH Gift of the Holy Ghost, either in person or by proxy.
I don't think that is an accurate approach.
The Holy Ghost is the bringer of knowledge and truth. The gift of the Holy Ghost is the right to a constant companionship of the Holy Ghost for the worthy.
The Melchizedek Priesthood is the dispenser of that right. >>>
The Melchizedek Priesthood is also a manager of the knowledge engine of Mormonism.
This is because the first principles and ordinances of the LDS Gospel form a pattern that cycles as the Mormons grows and learns in his/her religion. This places the Priesthood as a manager over the Mormon Church Member’s spiritural growth process.
First the person learns of a Mormon Principle—Like pay tithe, keep word of Wisdom, are instructed that they have been called to serve a Church Position, and on and on----
Next they have Faith in it and decide to be obedient or do it— (FAITH PHASE)
Then they live it or are obedient- they do it-- ( The Repentance phase
) Such as pay tithe, attend meetings, are faithful in callings.
Then after they prove themselves be being faithful and doing this calling-- the Bishop or Stake Pres might interview them and gives a recommend- or advancement.
So they get a Priesthood perk – such as Baptised, They are ordained, given a higher Priesthood, get a Patriarchal blessing, get a temple recommend, get advanced in the Church, as called by a Priesthood leader---- and in theory get MORE blessings from the Holy Ghost.
That is the Priesthood Ordinance stage (Baptism by Water at first, but baptism with Blessings of the Holy Ghost in later repeated cycles)
So the Priesthood give the Holy Ghost or manages Blessings through this cycle as revealed in the First Principles and Ordinances of the Gospel of Mormonism
Blessings of Holy Ghost-- Knowledge gained- Advancement in Mormonism
This is a cycle that is managed by the Priesthood—and empowered by the Holy Ghost—and a perk for Obedience is often indeed MORE KNOWLEDGE—a special kind of Knowledge including A TESTAMONY.
This is some kind of partnership in Mormonism between the Holy Ghost, The Priesthood and the Church Member. And it is all about Gaining Knowledge. Faith-Repentance- Priesthood Ordinance-- then Gift of the Holy Ghost
So the person is walked through by the Priesthood who presides over him/her through repeating cycles of Faith---Repentance-- Ordinance-- and an increase of Knowledge by the GoHG--- over and over, until they become a God. This is why the Laying on of Hands is so critical in Mormonism to the Gift of the Holy Ghost, after Baptism. It is a Priesthood demonstration, or an illustration of the cycle of Mormonism. If you have an eye to see it--this principle and cycle is the inverted pentagram on the LDS temple-- the five points stand for each-- the one pointing down is for the Blessing that comes from obedience and enduring to the end.
This pattern or knowledge cycle is embedded in the 'First Principles and Ordinances of The Gospel"
of Mormonism. And is tied to the Mormon notion of The Gift of the Holy Ghost
Some Mormon citations related to this teaching of Mormonism about the vital necessity of gaining knowledge.
“And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.”
Knowledge is necessary to life and godliness. Woe unto you priests and divines who preach that knowledge is not necessary unto life and salvation. Take away Apostles, etc., take away knowledge, and you will find yourselves worthy of the damnation of hell. Knowledge is revelation. Hear, all ye brethren, this grand key: knowledge is the power of God unto salvation.”
“Knowledge does away with darkness, suspense and doubt; for these cannot exist where knowledge is. … In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because He has greater knowledge; and hence He knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all.”
“As far as we degenerate from God, we descend to the devil and lose knowledge, and without knowledge we cannot be saved, and while our hearts are filled with evil, and we are studying evil, there is no room in our hearts for good, or studying good. Is not God good? Then you be good; if He is faithful, then you be faithful. Add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, and seek for every good thing [see 2 Peter 1:5].
“… A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God.”
These four from --------- -----------------------Chapter 22: Gaining Knowledge of Eternal Truths,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007),261–270 from Martha Jane Knowlton Coray, reporting a discourse given by Joseph Smith on May 21, 1843, in Nauvoo, Illinois; Martha Jane Knowlton Coray, Notebook, Church Archives
“Knowledge saves a man, and in the world of spirits a man cannot be exalted except by knowledge. “
“…but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before.”
King Follet Discourse
Edited by Hick Preacher, 15 November 2010 - 03:38 PM.