Drinking caffiene is not against Word of Wisdom

[rick b]

If your gonna go to bed at 2am, just hope the wifes awake but not the kids if you catch the drift.

somebody, dont recall who, asked for proof about Joseph smith drinking beer. read pg 111 of history of the church vol 6, while he was mayor he was able to seel it and give it away. and it was to be used for their health, comfort and/or convenience. then over in the JOD vol 10pg 206 good old BY made a distillery and recived more whiskey than needed from other sources, so he never used his distillery but still made one.

then read JOD VOL 2 pg 216 9pg 35 and 11pg 113-114 then over in vol 17 pg 104 of the JOD Orson pratt states the LDS dont follow the revelations they recive.

and George A Smith stated in JOD vol 16pg 238 they sell tea, coffee, and tobacco. hope these sources help. Rick b.

[Paul Osborne]

And if they find out what I take for my ADHD, they have a hernia.

I

[Paul Osborne]

Gimme a break, the WoW does not allow for beer. last time i checked All beer, including "non-alcoholic" beer contains alcohol. Thus making it agianst the WoW.

Look out for the Bull!

Hey, I drink nonalcoholic beer and it tastes great. It isn't a violation of the WofW. You're dreaming.

You will probably get more alcohol eating a twinkie or a banana than a nonalcoholic beer.

Paul O

[t2t2]

still waiting on reliable non anti-mormon proof BY and JS drank beer.....dont think whoever was talking about it, i wont name names, will produce it though.

It's in the History of the Church and other LDS publications.

"Then went to John P. Greene's, and paid him and another brother $200. Drank a glass of beer at Moessers. Called at William Clayton's,..." (Millennial Star, v. 231 p. 720)

Funny thing about this....in the History of the Church now it has been changed to ""Then went to John P. Green's, and paid him and another brother $200. Called at William Clayton's,..." (History of the Church, v. 6, p. 424) "

Why would the church change this? Why would they not want this seen?

"Elder Hyde told of the excellant white wine he drank in the east. Joseph prophesied in the name of the Lord--that he would drink wine with him in that country."

From Joseph Smith's personal diary.

----------

1. The Mayo Clinic would never suggest that you will be healthier if you don't drink at all (this point could be easily argued)

Argue it.

2. There are no specific risks associated with moderate alcohol use (again, highly debatable -- what is moderate for you may not be moderate for someone else; risks vary from person to person based on age, weight, genetic background, medical history, and so forth, even in orders of magnitude in difference), and

Debate it. Moderate is relative sure. So is moderate food consumption. I want to see an argument against alcohol that is not also applicable to food.

3. Don't ever start drinking (We're agreed).

Sorry if my sentence was a bit disjointed. That is not what I said. Nor is it what the Maya clinic said. They said that if you don't already drink there's no point in starting specifically for health reasons.

[Drevan]

Dates please.

[rick b]

Dates please. Did you not read my post. quoted sources like history of the church and JOD. rick b.

[t2t2]

Prophecy of drinking wine: Joseph Smith Diary, January 20, 1843

I...uh...don't know the date of the beer reference. Do I need to? It was in the Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, vol. 23, page 720. I've seen a photocopy of the original before it was changed on reprint omit the beer reference.

I'm confused. Are you disputing these references?

[Drevan]

I dont care that you're confused. All i asked for was the dates of those references.

[Dan]

t2t2-

I have a quick question for you. The stuff you are quoting from the Journal of Discourses, have you actually read a hard copy of the Journal of Discourses, or is your information from the internet? And yes, the answer is important.

[Spiceman]

I see many in here carried about by every wind of doctrine so I'll give you the Church Policy from the Handbook of Instructions p157:

The only official interpretation of "hot drinks" (D&C 89:9) in the Word of Wisdom is the statement made by early church leaders that the term "hot drinks" means tea and coffee.

Members should not use any substance that contains illegal drugs.  Nor should members use harmful or habit-forming substances except under the care of a competant physician.

Caffiene is both a harmful and a habit forming substance!

It is not meet that the Lord commands in all things, but anyone who thinks caffiene shouldn't be avoided for a healthy body and isn't against the spirit of the word of wisdom (*not the law), is kidding themselves. If you drink caffienated drinks, you won't get an "oooooh" out of me, because every individual should live their own lives. But please don't get on here and preach that it's ok to drink coke etc, cause it's just as stupid.

[Drevan]

By that same logic i can't eat chocolate nor red meat, thats whats just plain stupid. Each body is different, Coke is addicting to some and not others. That's why it's not included in the WoW, cause it doesnt apply to all, it's personal.

[Spiceman]

By that same logic i can't eat chocolate nor red meat, thats whats just plain stupid. Each body is different, Coke is addicting to some and not others. That's why it's not included in the WoW, cause it doesnt apply to all, it's personal.

Sure it's personal, so stop bragging about swilling a coke down then. Tell me what it is about coke that is good for you??

I think the wording is important.... you shouldn't "use" harmful or habit forming substances. So the logic is, you shouldn't use "caffiene" or any other harmful drug in such a way that it will form a habit. Will eating a piece of chocolate do this? I don't think so, however I have seen those addicted to coke and chocolate and the like and they definately are at the point where it has formed a habit. You may not be, however. The principle though is an enlightened one, and I can tell you right now (I suspect you already know though), that coke has very little in it that could be considered good for you, and much in it that isn't good for you. Just drop a few coins in it and let them sit for a couple of days.

As for red meat well that's a no brainer.

(Doctrine and Covenants 89:13.)

Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Obviously, not only red meat but chicken (fowls of the air) as well. What do you think it means to "be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine???

[t2t2]

I have a quick question for you. The stuff you are quoting from the Journal of Discourses, have you actually read a hard copy of the Journal of Discourses, or is your information from the internet? And yes, the answer is important.

Yes to both.

I have read a hard copy of Journal of Discourses. It was my father's and he's had it for quite a while so I'm guessing it's at least 30 years old. When I borrowed it I was a faithful member just eating up all I could find about the church.

As for the pasted quotes - yes I did grab those from the internet. It's easier. But I am only posting that which I have seen before.

Let me turn it around. Are you saying these are forgeries?

------------

I dont care that you're confused. All i asked for was the dates of those references.

Hmmmm...testy. I gave you one. Here's the other:

Millennial Star, vol. 23, page 720 - the entry appears to have been written June 1st, 1844. The first publishing of volume 23 would have been 1861....if my math is right. I can find dates for several others volumes and if a new volume came out once a year - it would be 1861.

So...what's the point?

[Drevan]

Tell me what it is about coke that is good for you??

Oh i dunno, it tastes good? Um, when you have a stomach it helps relieve tension and gas. When you have a headache it helps excelerate the medicine. And it's only addicting if you want it to be, you have to be drinking like a 2 liter of coke/dr pepper, mountain dew a day to be "addicting". If i dont have a coke i dont start trembling or feinding for a coke, im not like "i gotta have one!!" If cokes not available i drink juice, i drink milk (heaven forbid with chocolate in it ). My whole purpose in starting this thread was because i was tired of the lame looks and smart alec comments made by people in the U.C. (provo/orem) area. They claim i'm breaking the word of wisdom by drinking coke but have no problem drinking mountian dew or Dr. Pepper, Red Bull or Barqs root beer by that matter. Im just saying it's hypocritical. The amount of caffiene in a coke is minimal and doesn't give me any more pleasure or craving than a bar of chocolate. My comment about red meat was giving a rib jab to people who eat McDonalds daily. Hamburgers and fastfood in general are far more addicting and damaging than a can of coke.

[Laurie]

Jesus said that it is not what goes into the mouth of a man that defiles him, rather what comes out of his mouth!

[Drevan]

Jesus said that it is not what goes into the mouth of a man that defiles him, rather what comes out of his mouth!

Exactly which is why you should watch what you say, swearing is bad...mmmkay.

[t2t2]

Dreven, Dan:

So....you guys gonna tell me what your points were now that you have dates?

[Drevan]

Dreven, Dan:

So....you guys gonna tell me what your points were now that you have dates?

Not quiet yet, however if you've ever taken an english class they require you to post not only the title, page, but also the date. And its Drevan.

[Calm]

And it's only addicting if you want it to be, you have to be drinking like a 2 liter of coke/dr pepper, mountain dew a day to be "addicting".

Depends on the person. There are people out there with a sensitivity to caffeine. I'm one of them.

[Outshined]

Have a good evening (as i slam a 2 liter of Coke).

A 2-liter? How many times do you have to get up at night?

[t2t2]

Not quiet yet, however if you've ever taken an english class they require you to post not only the title, page, but also the date.

That's English class. You'd also get a D in English class for saying "Not quiet yet,"

The thing is...this is a discussion board. I don't care about spelling or grammar, for the most part. If you post "In The Amazing Spider Man issue #150 Spiderman says to Batman 'what's up doc?'" I'm not going to ask you what date that issue came out. It's obvious from the issue number exactly where the quotes came from.

Why are you being coy about this? Do you have a point or not?

[Laurie]

Jesus said that it is not what goes into the mouth of a man that defiles him, rather what comes out of his mouth!

Exactly which is why you should watch what you say, swearing is bad...mmmkay.

I don't believe Jesus was just speaking of swaring in this passage, although this may be part of it. We are not to judge people as to what they eat and drink the Bible clearly says! This is no different from the Jehovah's Witness belief that all holidays are bad!No Mother's day, no Father's day, no Birthdays. It is the doctrines of men that go beyond what is written, and is very legalistic, much like the Pharisees of Yeshua's day.

[Drevan]

Have a good evening (as i slam a 2 liter of Coke).

A 2-liter? How many times do you have to get up at night?

i just added that for extra sarcasm. I'd have to get up like every 30 minutes if i drank that much.

[t2t2]

Come on now Drevan - you asked twice for dates. Are you gonna make your point or not?

[Drevan]

Come on now Drevan - you asked twice for dates. Are you gonna make your point or not?

When i or edward can find info backing my point then yes, i'll post a response, but then again, you'll just post something that says im wrong, so it's almost not worth it...still looking though.