on me: what time period and types of writings and topics (transoceanic voyages)
and geographical locations I can consider.
OK then -- drop the New World geography. Use any story with a voyage across
water that suits you -- Gilgamesh -- Odysseus, Aeneas, Noah, -- whatever.
And, if the time-frame I've suggesed is too great a restriction,
then use anything written before 1829. Anything written after
that date might possibly have been influenced by the Nephite Record,
so I don't think you can pull out some Orson Scott Card novel and
as I have found. You are putting me in an impossible situation that in no
way replicates the actual situation of Hurlbut.
No -- I am holding you to your implied conclusion that the literary
parallels which people have cited, can be found in equal measure in
other texts than just the Oberlin manuscript. However -----> since
the Book of Mormon overlaps the Bible's stories in some places, I
suggest that you exclude the Bible and biblical pastiche fiction which
does not significantly overlap with "the more history part" of the BoM.
(because a theory about strangers around the house before translation
of the Book of Mormon and a plan to foist a new scripture on the unsuspecting
public could have been hypothesized for lots of early converts Ė Oliver Cowdery,
W W Phelps, Solomon Chamberlain),
You've lost me there, friend. Are you abandoning Matt Roper's conclusion,
that the Spalding claims really did begin with the preaching of Orson Hyde
and Samuel H. Smith, at Conneaut, before Hurlbut ever joined the Church?
That old dog won't hunt -- Hurlbut did not invent those claims.
and it wouldnít have necessarily had to deal with transoceanic voyages.
Yes -- he could have made selected extracts from Josephus, whose
"Wars" and "Antiquities" were published, bound up with the KJV and
Apocrypha, in some large Bibles of that day. But that is why I have
already asked you to avoid coming up with quasi-biblical narratives
which have absolutely nothing to do with the 1832 authorship claims.
Or -------> if you simply must use the Book of Jashur, or some such
oddity, then at least confine your finding to a non-Spalding category
of counting "beholds," "wherefores" and "It seemeth me goods."
Give us at least one book of this GENRE you keep alluding to.
If you don't like Southey, then try MacPherson, Clavigero, or even
book and asked me to find another book, published or in draft form before the
publication of the book in question, that had as many parallels as have been
proposed for the Spalding manuscript and the Book of Mormon. A conspiracy or
plagiarism or secret collaboration scenario could be cooked up for anyone, so
that canít be part of the constraints. Also, to be perfectly frank, all I have
to find is a book that has a smaller number of parallels than Spalding theorists
cite, because I can hypothesize that there is another lost book written by the
same author that has several more parallels.
Heck -- if you're going to wander that far afield from the "genre" issue, you
can simply point out some book that resembles some other book, more closely
than Spalding and the BoM resemble each other. You can do that in ten seconds,
using "Huckleberry Finn" and "Tom Sawyer."
now that you have found a second book with some parallels.
Please take 30 seconds and click on this link:
I've already done half your work for you. If you cannot find any
interesting Book of Mormon parallels, within the confines of "genre,"
that suits your purposes there -- then give up the task and spend
some time helping widows and orphans and visiting the sick.
specified book. I still think this is not too hard.
Enjoy your search. Report back on any results that really should be
included in the footnotes for Criddle's projected S-R theory book.
So I want to ask you straight out: Do you agree that both the PCA plots (including more than just the first two components if you want) and your own k-means clustering results are consistent with the internally claimed structure of the Book of Mormon?
I find it interesting that NONE of the 19th century writers' texts
plot within the Book of Mormon "cloud;" and that within the "cloud"
itself, the texts of Moroni, etc. plot out as extended archipelagos
and nebulous clouds themselves.
Some factor must obviously be at work, which pulls the "small plates"
chapters upward on the y-axis, and the "large plates" chapters downwards.
But whatever that "force" may be, it is not entirely consistent. It
appears to me that the Nephite Record splits roughly into three divisions,
the beginning (up to Enos); the middle (over to mid-3rd Nephi) and the end.
But, by "roughly," I mean just that -- and not precisely. Looking at
the pc1/pc2 chart and the pc2/pc3 chart, we see the oddities of chapters
being located outside of their logically expected domains. The reasons
for this distribution remain obscure, but it fades more and more with
the addition of each new pc#/pc# chart we add to the series.
You also produced a "heat chart," which I have replicated (minus the heat)
for a useful "similarities tree" of the Book of Mormon. I've included the
19th century authors' texts also, in an extended version). Examining that
"tree" we see the 19th century authors once again grouping closely together.
But the Nephite Record fragments into a number of "branches" on the tree,
so that contiguity and continuity in the narrative is rarely preserved in
the "similarities" groupings.
In the "Record of Helaman," which I've looked at more carefully than
the rest, we see the Alma 46-53 sequences of chapters split between
two different branches -- and those two branches are not nearly so
close to each other on the tree, as I had at first expected.
How can all of this (and more) be squared with a Smith-alone production?
Or with a Smith-plus-help production? Or with a Smith-translating-Nephites
You tell me, and we'll have a discovery that might even make its way into
a Conference talk, one of these days.
Edited by Uncle Dale, 08 October 2010 - 02:30 PM.