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William Schryver

Zomas = Zion

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(Note: both the transcription below and this post have been edited to reflect my changed conclusions about the GAEL reading in question.)

On page 23 of the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language (GAEL), the explanation for the character/sound Beth reads:

Man's The place appointed of God for / the residence of Adam; Adam ondi=Ahman / a fruit garden made to be fruitful, by / blessing or promise; great valley or plain / given by promise, fitted with fruit trees and / precious flowers, made for the healing / of man. Good to the taste, pleasing to / the eye; sweet and precious ^delightful^ to the / smell; place of happiness - purity, / holiness, and rest: even Zoma{h|r} xxxx / Zion

What do you Hebrew geeks think of the word

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"Zomas" is a perfectly good Spanish name, but I'm really interested in any possible Hebrew origin.

Thanks anyway.

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"Zomas" is a perfectly good Spanish name, but I'm really interested in any possible Hebrew origin.

Thanks anyway.

oops. I would love to help you in any way possible. The day that I helped Will would go down in history!

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The only zoma I'm aware of is a sage who lived a couple of generations after Christ, Shimeon ben Zoma.

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oops. I would love to help you in any way possible. The day that I helped Will would go down in history!

I think I could possibly help you, at least on one topic where your conception of things is, in my opinion, mistaken: the nature and meaning of "The Celestial Kingdom". Feel free to PM me if you're interested. In the meantime I'll do a search for previous posts I have made on the topic to which I might direct you.

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"Zomas" is a perfectly good Spanish name, but I'm really interested in any possible Hebrew origin.

Thanks anyway.

Zion = Zomas back in Brigham Young's days. That's when he "spoke" in the Adamic language. Supposedly.

Zom, Zomar, Zomas... no clue

But Zoma = ????

Which means...nothing really. Just the word.

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Zion = Zomas back in Brigham Young's days. That's when he "spoke" in the Adamic language. Supposedly.

Yes, I'm aware of the fact that the word was frequently referenced "back in the day." The question is concerning its origins, if any, in Hebrew.

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I had understood that the beth character means 'house'. It's also used as a prefix meaning 'inside'. Those be compatible ideas, and so are most of the ones listed there I suppose; "The place appointed of God for the residence of Adam" does kind of sound like a house.

Wood

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I can't find any tzomah/s or zomah/s in Hebrew. The Aramaic word zoma (see the above-mentioned sage) seems to mean a sort of pulp used by dyers.

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I can't find any tzomah/s or zomah/s in Hebrew. The Aramaic word zoma (see the above-mentioned sage) seems to mean a sort of pulp used by dyers.

My little paperback Hebrew/English dictionary lists tsadi, vav, mem, het as: flora; growing. (Forgive me if my transliteration of the consonants is incorrect in some fashion; I remember how they sound, but not always how to transliterate them.) I think the vowels make it: tsomeh (or tsomah -- I never can remember without looking at a table if two dots underneath signifies "e" or "a". I've been writing e-mails to Southern Utah University President Michael Benson trying to convince him to start a Middle East Studies program [that was his field of study] so I can resume my Hebrew studies, but so far to no avail.)

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My little paperback Hebrew/English dictionary lists tsadi, vav, mem, het as: flora; growing. (Forgive me if my transliteration of the consonants is incorrect in some fashion; I remember how they sound, but not always how to transliterate them.) I think the vowels make it: tsomeh (or tsomah -- I never can remember without looking at a table if two dots underneath signifies "e" or "a". I've been writing e-mails to Southern Utah University President Michael Benson trying to convince him to start a Middle East Studies program [that was his field of study] so I can resume my Hebrew studies, but so far to no avail.)

I suggest that you contact Chabad Lubavitch of Utah and ask for Rabbi Benny Zippel. You can pm me for his phone number or I can give you his website. He might be able to help.

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Here's something interesting: Tsem'a

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I can't find any tzomah/s or zomah/s in Hebrew. The Aramaic word zoma (see the above-mentioned sage) seems to mean a sort of pulp used by dyers.

What about tzamah -- doesn't that mean to thirst?

Also, without the aleph, doesn't it mean like a veil or hair or something?

Oops, I just realized that the word for thirst was spelled with a chet at the end rather than a he but I would've sworn I've seen it spelled with a he as well.

Nevermind, I got the word for sprout (which is spelled with a chet) mixed up with the word for thirst in my mind somehow.

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Here's something interesting: Tsem'a

This is what I was referring to, as well. In my dictionary, the vav after the tsadi (see my initial post) has a single dot vowell indicator above it. Doesn't that indicate an "o" sound, or am I misremembering? Incidentally, I couldn't find anything that ended in he, only with het.

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O-Brother (Where Art Thou?):

I suggest that you contact Chabad Lubavitch of Utah and ask for Rabbi Benny Zippel.

I've already contacted David Bokovoy and Ben McGuire. It doesn't get much better than that! :P

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Tzamah or "thirsts" is spelled with a he at the end in these song lyrics:

http://www.jewishreflections.org/zmirot/translations/TzamahNafshi-he.pdf

Also, the word tzammah (Strong's Dictionary #6777) is spelled with a he at the end.

Well, as I said, my current dictionary is ... well, rather small. And I bought it in 1985! (My how time flies ...)

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Matt Roper just provided me with a scan of the 1831 issue of the Ohio Star article where reference is made to "Zomar." It had been misprinted as "Zomas" in 1834. And since that was the primary influence in my conclusion that the letter was an "s" instead of an "r", I think we now need to look into the possible Hebrew origins of "Zomar" rather than "Zomas."

W. W. Phelps's penmanship frequently renders the two letters indistinguishable from one another, and I was able to locate three examples of an "s" that looked very much like the letter written over the "h" in "Zomah".

Anyway, bottom line, I've now changed my mind and believe it's "Zomar" rather than "Zomas."

So, any ideas about "Zomar"?

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No luck with zomar either, be it zayin or tzadi.

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Arabic: Surah Al-Zomar [al-Zumar]. Maybe that's a possibility?

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The Arabic root referenced in this Surah refers to a military troop or throngs of people. The root also has meanings related to wind instruments and music that are also reflected in Hebrew. The main Hebrew root simply refers to wool (see Isa 1:18). But the roots most likely predate Hebrew, as there was a Canaanite tribe in the hills with this name (Gen 10:18), and a mountain near Bethel with the name (Joshua 18:22; 2 Chr 13:4). The earlier root was probably related to Sumur/Sumer, and I'm not sure we know their origin with any precision. Zomas seems to be a variant to some degree. Early tribes in what is now Kurdistan called their pastures in the tops of the mountains "Zomas." Ibn Khaldun and others use this word to refer to the minaret towers of islam from which the people would be called to prayer.

Regards

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The Arabic root referenced in this Surah refers to a military troop or throngs of people. The root also has meanings related to wind instruments and music that are also reflected in Hebrew. The main Hebrew root simply refers to wool (see Isa 1:18). But the roots most likely predate Hebrew, as there was a Canaanite tribe in the hills with this name (Gen 10:18), and a mountain near Bethel with the name (Joshua 18:22; 2 Chr 13:4). The earlier root was probably related to Sumur/Sumer, and I'm not sure we know their origin with any precision. Zomas seems to be a variant to some degree. Early tribes in what is now Kurdistan called their pastures in the tops of the mountains "Zomas." Ibn Khaldun and others use this word to refer to the minaret towers of islam from which the people would be called to prayer.

Regards

It is the root for such names as Zimri, and apparently, is what zemorah in Ezekiel 8 means, but the form zomar is unkown in Hebrew, and I don't see the connection to Zion.

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It is the root for such names as Zimri, and apparently, is what zemorah in Ezekiel 8 means, but the form zomar is unkown in Hebrew, and I don't see the connection to Zion.

Agreed, Volgadon. I don't believe there is a connection to Hebrew in that form. Although I will say that I'm usually skeptical of the forms as transliterated in English. The number of ways I've seen my own name in Arabic (????) transliterated into English, for example . . .

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I love TEL's attitude to transliterations in that preface to 7 Pillars.

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