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Mortal Man

Have things changed?

199 posts in this topic

One of the problems with exit narratives is that you only get one side of the story, because the church does not comment on disciplinary councils. In certain cases, however, I get the impression that the story is basically accurate. Regarding the excommunication of scholars and intellectuals, I've heard from some people that times have changed; i.e., that members are now free to express doubts and publish their research without fear of reprisal. However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

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One of the problems with exit narratives is that you only get one side of the story, because the church does not comment on disciplinary councils. In certain cases, however, I get the impression that the story is basically accurate. Regarding the excommunication of scholars and intellectuals, I've heard from some people that times have changed; i.e., that members are now free to express doubts and publish their research without fear of reprisal. However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

Neither. The church doesn't monitor MADB and public apostasy can still lead to excommunication.

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Having doubt's is not a problem, teaching those doubts publically as facts is.

70's watching this board....bwhahahahahahahahahaha!

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Since something like 90% of the posters here are anonymous, even IF someone from teh church was monitoring us, how would they proceed to do anything about an apostasizing member?

Really, who are the crazy people who come up with this stuff? :P

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Since something like 90% of the posters here are anonymous, even IF someone from teh church was monitoring us, how would they proceed to do anything about an apostasizing member?

Really, who are the crazy people who come up with this stuff? :P

The same people who believe in Danites?

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Since something like 90% of the posters here are anonymous, even IF someone from teh church was monitoring us, how would they proceed to do anything about an apostasizing member?

Okay, this will sound weird, but I dreamt last night that I logged onto this board and got a big red message from one of the moderators that I had been "identified" and that they were forwarding all my personal information to church headquarters. I think my dream was in response to some of the rumors I've heard about this board and from reading David Wright's letter, wherein he relates how a general authority contacted his stake president after reading one of his essays.

Really, who are the crazy people who come up with this stuff? wacko.gif

They shall remain nameless, at least until such time that their sanity can be assessed.

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The same people who believe in Danites?

And just who are you referring to here? Any posts in particular? Come on, out with it.

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I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

Foil hats have a limited warranty. :P

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And just who are you referring to here? Any posts in particular? Come on, out with it.

Just a little bit paranoid, are we?

I was referring to the "crazy people" Deborah mentioned. Now, anyone who identifies him/herself in what Deborah said. . . .

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However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

Well that's insulting. This board gets the Quorum of the Twelve. That other board is the one that gets the 70s.

But seriously....that has to be one of the funniest (and narcissistic) things I have ever heard and I've been here a long time.

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However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

I'd like to see where they got this information from. I find it an extraordinary poor use of the seventies' time to watch this board. I also think the idea is based in their delusions of grandeur thinking that Church is that obsessed with their apostate activities that they are using their top people to track them down so they can kick them out.
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I think those 'other people' from whom you heard that this board is monitored for potential apostates is silly.

While I do believe it is entirely possible that a Seventy might post here at some point, or even just read, it is certainly not with the intent of 'finding candidates for excommunication', imo. I think this goes against the principles behind church councils/courts. Their purpose is, imo, out of sincere love and genuine desire to help the transgressor, to help them find the path to repentance as the Holy Spirit would dictate their actions.

It is contradictory to the gospel, imo, for Church leaders to sit in wait hoping to pounce on an apostate. Were I a Bishop, I'd think a Church Court would be one of the things I'd look forward to the least. It truly is founded on Christlike attitudes and charity, so it runs far the opposite way to think that they are just hoping to find someone (which is the impression I got from the op, as to the motivation).

imo :P

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The same people who believe in Danites?

But what do we do about those whom do not beleive in danites? ya see this could be a very serious problem! :P

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Well that's insulting. This board gets the Quorum of the Twelve. That other board is the one that gets the 70s.

But seriously....that has to be one of the funniest (and narcissistic) things I have ever heard and I've been here a long time.

I monitor this board and I teach primary. How does that make the ego feel?

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However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication.

It's a good thing the SSCE has already infiltrated the Seventy.

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However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

thanks for the good laugh.

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Well that's insulting. This board gets the Quorum of the Twelve. That other board is the one that gets the 70s.

But seriously....that has to be one of the funniest (and narcissistic) things I have ever heard and I've been here a long time.

I'm offended its not the 1st presidency. OTOH I'm sure they monitor their paid apologists, to make sure those guys aren't slacking.

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One of the problems with exit narratives is that you only get one side of the story, because the church does not comment on disciplinary councils. In certain cases, however, I get the impression that the story is basically accurate. Regarding the excommunication of scholars and intellectuals, I've heard from some people that times have changed; i.e., that members are now free to express doubts and publish their research without fear of reprisal. However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

That would indicate to me that the 70's and the church have way too much time on their hands! Just a thought! :P

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From the evidence posted, I am not surprised Bro Wright got excommunicated. It is a simple issue. If he admits that to be orthodox, he would have to lie, then he is not orthodox.

Either you believe in the church or you do not.

If you do not believe in the church, why would you want to be a member?

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If you do not believe in the church, why would you want to be a member?

Because you can get cool gigs like monitoring this board!!

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If you do not believe in the church, why would you want to be a member?

Family, heritage, community.

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From the evidence posted, I am not surprised Bro Wright got excommunicated. It is a simple issue. If he admits that to be orthodox, he would have to lie, then he is not orthodox.

In many cases, I think the excommunicated member uses "academic freedom" and "intellectual honesty" as masks for a political agenda (usually feminism and/or gay rights). I also imagine that the member's level of insolence probably plays a huge role in the ultimate decision of the council. In other cases, however, there appears to be no political agenda whatsoever and I sense no smugness or disrespect, just rock-solid research paired with an understandable desire to publish their work in an academic journal. These cases (like David Wright's and, I hate to say it but, Galileo's) are troubling. Lack of orthodoxy should not be grounds for excommunication.

Either you believe in the church or you do not.

Do you believe that Adam was the first man on Earth? That Noah's flood wiped out the dinosaurs? That polygamy was instituted to care for poor widows? That Abraham's own hand wrote on the very same papyrus in Joseph Smith's possession?

Are you a "good Latter-day Saint" who follows the counsel of Apostle Mark E. Petersen regarding the location of the Hill Cumorah or do you "question the integrity of Joseph Smith"?

If you do not believe in the church, why would you want to be a member?

If you do not believe in Santa Claus, why would you want to have Christmas?

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One of the problems with exit narratives is that you only get one side of the story, because the church does not comment on disciplinary councils. In certain cases, however, I get the impression that the story is basically accurate. Regarding the excommunication of scholars and intellectuals, I've heard from some people that times have changed; i.e., that members are now free to express doubts and publish their research without fear of reprisal. However, I've heard from other people that certain seventies have been tasked with monitoring this board for the purpose of identifying candidates for excommunication. Which is it?

Has the person who is the subject of your link explained these statements in any detail:

"You asked me a list of questions, mainly about the priesthood claims of Joseph Smith. I expressed my views positively but felt it necessary to put my answers in the context of my theological thinking that had grown out of my studies. You denied the legitimacy of my theological reconstructions. You said that I could not perform the ordinances if I did not have a conviction of the traditional understanding of the matters about which you questioned me. You said it would be hypocrisy to perform the ordinances without that conviction."

Bernard

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Because you can get cool gigs like monitoring this board!!

Yep.

And for all the GA's watching- don't bother with the check this month. Just wire it to my account.

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If you do not believe in the church, why would you want to be a member?

Ask Sterling McMurrin.

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