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merganzerman

Parable of Sheep and Goats and salvation requirements

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My dear sir, the reference within the New Testament to the Akedat Yitzchak obviously shows that the authors of the New Testament were using words such as pistis in a new and novel way that would make no sense to their audience, but would make perfect sense to a few denizens of internet message boards who are adherents to a subset of Western Christianity, several millennia after the books were initially authored.

It

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(and cause poor personal hygiene).

There, fixed it for you.

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Off course you don't, because this is the cesspool that you have been living in for some time.

Certainly you have made a good point in calling it a cesspool. And I think people can visit the blog and find out why and who makes it into a cesspool, Mormon and Non Mormon alike.
I gave you the link. Do you need more? It was a very recent posting.
I just remembered that was a recent post and found it. I agree, That was disrespectful and it made me angry actually. Did you catch how another person and myself responded to that very message? CFR that please.
Edited to add,

How about if we change it around a little?

How foolish these Evangelicals like Echo are to reject God for a god of their own making who is nothing more than a fictitious being of no substance. Until Evangelicals like Echo understand who God really is, any discussion on any other matters is pointless. I would suggest that Mormons not waste their time with these folks and go and assist those Evangelicals who are truly looking to find God and salvation through the real Jesus

Edited again to add.

Now did you feel the love and respect in that?

I agreed with you on this one post, I just didn't understand how the rest of what you gave is disrespectful.

What is your definition of respect with regards to the rest?

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CFR that please.

You already know what the reference is, so why are you calling for it?

I agreed with you on this one post, I just didn't understand how the rest of what you gave is disrespectful.

What is your definition of respect with regards to the rest?

See the good Dr's post #190. He covered it quite well.

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Did you catch how another person and myself responded to that very message?

So, when is Mark going to ban the offender? Or will he just let it stand?

Or does he only ban Mormons?

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Certainly you have made a good point in calling it a cesspool. And I think people can visit the blog and find out why and who makes it into a cesspool, Mormon and Non Mormon alike.

I just remembered that was a recent post and found it. I agree, That was disrespectful and it made me angry actually. Did you catch how another person and myself responded to that very message? CFR that please.

I agreed with you on this one post, I just didn't understand how the rest of what you gave is disrespectful.

What is your definition of respect with regards to the rest?

Look at my post and the good Dr.'s post.

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See the good Dr's post #190. He covered it quite well.

Look at my post and the good Dr.'s post.

It's a trap!

ackbar.jpg

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It's a trap!

ackbar.jpg

Hahahaha. Is that because we couldn't get the shields down yet? WE have to give Han more time.

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You already know what the reference is, so why are you calling for it?

You said this: "You will have to treat us Mormons with respect (something that doesn't happen there)." in post 143.

I don't believe you have spoken the truth. Therefore I am requesting that you CFR all the responses to noclafs post that you quoted as being disrespectful.

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You said this: "You will have to treat us Mormons with respect (something that doesn't happen there)." in post 143.

I don't believe you have spoken the truth. Therefore I am requesting that you CFR all the responses to noclafs post that you quoted as being disrespectful.

I don't see anything disrespectful written there, would you care to give me your definition of respect?

What was the title of that blog and the month, can you remember? If not, don't worry about it, it would be too much to ask of you.

IF you can't see the lack of repsect going on in there I have to wonder if you know what respect means?

The "mormon god" Yeah that is real respectful. Also the blantent mis-representation, do you call that respectful??

Who wants a half-pint savior?
You call this respectful???
The Mormon jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:100
Here is one mis-represnetaion. The BoM does not claim that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem. Do you find this respectful?
Jesus was prayed to in the Bible and He told us to do so
I cannot find a single verse of scripture in the bible were Jesus tells us to pray to him. In fact the only time Jesus us tells us how to pray he specifically tells us to address "our Father who art in Hevean".

Here some of it is. Care to respond?

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You said this: "You will have to treat us Mormons with respect (something that doesn't happen there)." in post 143.

I don't believe you have spoken the truth. Therefore I am requesting that you CFR all the responses to noclafs post that you quoted as being disrespectful.

Hi Echo,

I don

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Here is one mis-represnetaion. The BoM does not claim that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem. Do you find this respectful?

I cannot find a single verse of scripture in the bible were Jesus tells us to pray to him. In fact the only time Jesus us tells us how to pray he specifically tells us to address "our Father who art in Hevean".

Here some of it is. Care to respond?

I would like to respond, could you first give me your definition of respect? Thanks.

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Have you never heard of the golden rule?

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I would like to respond, could you first give me your definition of respect? Thanks.

I use the common definition. You know "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

And this

Respect denotes both a positive feeling of esteem for a person or other entity (such as a nation or a religion), and also specific actions and conduct representative of that esteem.

This is from Wikipedia.

So tell me how does be-littling ones beliefs and mis-represnt them show respect?

What is your definition of respect?

You said this: "You will have to treat us Mormons with respect (something that doesn't happen there)." in post 143.

I don't believe you have spoken the truth. Therefore I am requesting that you CFR all the responses to noclafs post that you quoted as being disrespectful.

I don't see anything disrespectful written there, would you care to give me your definition of respect?

What was the title of that blog and the month, can you remember? If not, don't worry about it, it would be too much to ask of you.

IF you can't see the lack of repsect going on in there I have to wonder if you know what respect means?

The "mormon god" Yeah that is real respectful. Also the blantent mis-representation, do you call that respectful??

Who wants a half-pint savior?
You call this respectful???
The Mormon jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:100
Here is one mis-represnetaion. The BoM does not claim that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem. Do you find this respectful?
Jesus was prayed to in the Bible and He told us to do so
I cannot find a single verse of scripture in the bible were Jesus tells us to pray to him. In fact the only time Jesus us tells us how to pray he specifically tells us to address "our Father who art in Hevean".

Now please answer my questions!

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So, when is Mark going to ban the offender? Or will he just let it stand?

Or does he only ban Mormons?

You will have to ask Mark, it's not my blog and I can't speak for him.

What I can say is that the NON LDS offender was held accountable and rebuked by myself and another person in several posts. These posts of which I have called you to post (CFR)here in this thread in response to your comment: ""You will have to treat us Mormons with respect (something that doesn't happen there). Which I believe is not true.

I can also tell you that some LDS posters have been posting there for quite some time, they have been disrespectful, they are still there.

I would like to ask you a few questions. You said that I will have to treat Mormons with respect and I totally agree with that. Does that go both ways? Have you always been respectful towards others in this thread? How about in other threads? (you can find my definition of respect in post # 217)

What were the titles on Marks blog that you posted on? I went into the search feature on his blog and came up with nothing.

Thank you for your time.

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You will have to ask Mark, it's not my blog and I can't speak for him.

What I can say is that the NON LDS offender was held accountable and rebuked by myself and another person in several posts. These posts of which I have called you to post (CFR)here in this thread in response to your comment: ""You will have to treat us Mormons with respect (something that doesn't happen there). Which I believe is not true.

I can also tell you that some LDS posters have been posting there for quite some time, they have been disrespectful, they are still there.

I would like to ask you a few questions. You said that I will have to treat Mormons with respect. Does that go both ways? Have you always been respectful in this thread? How about in other threads?

Thank you for your time.

So I take it then you find things I outlined as disrespectful? If so I say, lets move past this and continue on in this thread. Apparenlty Vance has some rather strong feelings towards his experiance on said blog.

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I use the common definition. You know "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

And this

Respect denotes both a positive feeling of esteem for a person or other entity (such as a nation or a religion), and also specific actions and conduct representative of that esteem.

This is from Wikipedia.

So tell me how does be-littling ones beliefs and mis-represnt them show respect?

Thank you for the definition. As you know, Jesus never showed disrespect towards anyone because he was sinless and never sinned. Disrespect is sin. That means that in All that Jesus said to others, not once was he disrespectful. And as a result of having respect for all people, he didn't have respect for false teaching because as the bible teaches, false teaching was and is harmful to those very people he respected. The Pharisees teachings come to mind as one example. So I think it is important to distinguish the difference between lack of respect for teachings that harm people while having respect for the people who believe in those harmful teachings.

My definition of some remarks that would be disrespectful and aimed at people themselves would be: mocking, ridicule, sarcasm, contempt, slander, insults, false accusations, impatience, false assumptions, to demean, and on and on...etc.

Misrepresenting the beliefs of another isn't disrespectful at all unless it is done intentionally. Most people don't do it intentionally. Those who do it unintentionally should be given credit and commended for trying to understand the beliefs of another. I think that is a really good thing. I know the LDS people misrepresent my beliefs often but I commend them for giving it the effort and for tying to get it right and I look at it as an opportunity to help them grow in their understanding of what I believe.

Here is one mis-represnetaion. The BoM does not claim that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem. Do you find this respectful?

This isn't disrespectful at all and it falls under teaching rather than people anyways. But Mark states that the BOM claims that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem because of what Alma 7:10 states:

Alma 7:10 "10 And behold, he shall be aborn of Mary, at bJerusalem which is the cland of our forefathers, she being a dvirgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and econceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God."

I cannot find a single verse of scripture in the bible were Jesus tells us to pray to him. In fact the only time Jesus us tells us how to pray he specifically tells us to address "our Father who art in Hevean".
"This isn't disrespectful at all and it falls under teaching rather than people anyways. But here are the passages:

John 14:14 "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Acts 8:22 "Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart."

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

Acts 7:59-60 "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep"

Acts 8:24 "Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me."

The "Mormon God" Yeah that is real respectful. Also the blantent mis-representation, do you call that respectful??"

You can call my God the "Lutheran God" and I won't find that disrespectful at all. Again, it's about teaching and not people. This is about who God is.

But what about you saying it is a "blatent misrepresentation"? What are you insinuating about Mark? Wouldn't that be a personal attack(disrespect) against people rather than the teaching?

Who wants a half-pint savior?
Half pint is simply descriptive of Half God/Half Man. It is refering to a teaching.

I have some questions for you now that I would like an honest answer to and I am thanking you in advance for taking the time to answer them:

1) Check out Mark Cares Blog here http://markcares.wordpress.com/ and could you report back if any of the LDS posters there have been disrespectful?

2) Are all the Mormons posting in this Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Forum always respectful to the NON LDS here?

3) Have you ever been disrespectful towards people in this forum yourself?

Thank you for your time.

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Thank you for the definition. As you know, Jesus never showed disrespect towards anyone because he was sinless and never sinned. Disrespect is sin. That means that in All that Jesus said to others, not once was he disrespectful.

Lets stop right here. I have to vehemently disagree... Christ refered to people not of Jewish blood with disrespectful and racialy charged epithets on a regular basis...

Matt 15

21

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Half pint is simply descriptive of Half God/Half Man. It is refering to a teaching.

I think it is disrespectful. It is not done out of love and people that talk that way are only trying to belittle some one belief. I would never refer to anything that you believe in as "half pint".

Alma 7:10 "10 And behold, he shall be aborn of Mary, at bJerusalem which is the cland of our forefathers, she being a dvirgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and econceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God."

At is the key word, if the text said, "In" you would have a point. The BoM does not state that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem. I was born at Salt Lake which is the city of my fathers, when in reality I was born in cotton wood Utah. No one outside of Utah would know were Cotton Wood Utah is.

This isn't disrespectful at all and it falls under teaching rather than people anyways. But here are the passages:

John 14:14 "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Acts 8:22 "Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart."

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

Acts 7:59-60 "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep"

Acts 8:24 "Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me."

I am well aware that people prayed to Jesus, that was not my argument. It was that we were never told to pray to him. Jesus never told us to pray to him of course we always close our prayers in Jesus name but it is the Father that he instructed us to pray to, not him.

1) Check out Mark Cares Blog here http://markcares.wordpress.com/ and could you report back if any of the LDS posters there have been disrespectful?

2) Are all the Mormons posting in this Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Forum always respectful to the NON LDS here?

3) Have you ever been disrespectful towards people in this forum yourself?

1. I am quite sure there is a healthy level of disrepect on all sides on that blog.

2. Why are you wanting my to answer if "all" mormons posting are always respectful. The answer is no, of course not. What the difference is that some people are mostly disrespect in the way they post. I have seen it plenty on other forums.

3.Of course I have, so. I don't go to other peoples forms and bash thier religion like some do. And I don't dedicate whole blogs in tearing downs some one esles beliefs.

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My dear sir, the reference within the New Testament to the Akedat Yitzchak obviously shows that the authors of the New Testament were using words such as pistis in a new and novel way that would make no sense to their audience, but would make perfect sense to a few denizens of internet message boards who are adherents to a subset of Western Christianity, several millennia after the books were initially authored.

It

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I would like to respond, could you first give me your definition of respect? Thanks.

If one needs to have respect defined for them, it is apparent that they aren't used to showing it.

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I remember being asked by one of the CARM regulars if these secular sources were using the "Christian pistis."

My response: shok.gif

That is a classic!!!!!!!

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Lets stop right here. I have to vehemently disagree... Christ refered to people not of Jewish blood with disrespectful and racialy charged epithets on a regular basis...

Matt 15

21

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So what it boils dow to is that you really don't consider Mark disrespectful because he is stamping out the Mormon heresy and Zak's mention of the Canaanite woman has given you the escape route needed to save face.

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I cannot find a single verse of scripture in the bible were Jesus tells us to pray to him. In fact the only time Jesus us tells us how to pray he specifically tells us to address "our Father who art in Hevean".

John 14:14 "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This is a very bad translation. In the Greek, Jesus doesn't express or imply that He is the one to be asked. Sorry but this doesn't fulfill the CFR.

Acts 8:22 "Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart."

This isn't Jesus speaking. Sorry but this doesn't fulfill the CFR. Although, this is the closest to doing so.

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."

This isn't Jesus speaking. Sorry but this doesn't fulfill the CFR. Also, this isn't a statement of instruction but rather a description of what Paul did.

Acts 7:59-60 "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep"

This isn't Jesus speaking. Sorry but this doesn't fulfill the CFR. Also, this isn't a statement of instruction but rather a description of what Stephen said.

Acts 8:24 "Then Simon answered, "Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me."

This isn't Jesus speaking. Sorry but this doesn't fulfill the CFR. Also, this isn't a statement of instruction but rather a description of what Simon said, who incidentally was called to repent and pray to "God" in the two previous verses.

Sorry but the instructions Jesus gives on prayer are preeminent over the doings and sayings of all others. That is just the way it is.

You can call my God the "Lutheran God" and I won't find that disrespectful at all.

So you would be ok with this statement?

So, I can call your god the "Lutheran god" and you wouldn't find that disrespectful at all?

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