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merganzerman

Parable of Sheep and Goats and salvation requirements

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And enough with the nonsense of Mormons "earning" salvation:

"I say unto you that if ye should aserve him who has created you from the beginning, and is bpreserving you from day to day, by lending you cbreath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own dwill, and even supporting you from one moment to another

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Merganzerman, let me ask you a couple of questions. You wanted grace didn't you?

You did something in order to recieve grace didn't you?

According to Paul you have to confess with the lips.

No confession... No grace.

Thats pure and simple grace through an Action.

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And enough with the nonsense of Mormons "earning" salvation:

"I say unto you that if ye should aserve him who has created you from the beginning, and is bpreserving you from day to day, by lending you cbreath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own dwill, and even supporting you from one moment to another

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Their surprise wasn't that they had been doing good works, but that the good works they had done to others were accounted as if they had been done personally to Christ.

Their surprise wasn't that they hadn't been doing good works, but that their neglect of others was accounted as if they had personally neglected Christ.

So your whole argument falls apart.

The rejected of the savior (the "goats") cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ. Would you consider this act "their neglect of others"?

They performed miraculous works in the name of Jesus Christ. Assuming these actions weren't done privately, would this be neglecting of others?

The rejected of the savior prophesied in the name of Jesus Christ. Could this be "their neglect of others"?

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The rejected of the savior (the "goats") cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ. Would you consider this act "their neglect of others"?

They performed miraculous works in the name of Jesus Christ. Assuming these actions weren't done privately, would this be neglecting of others?

The rejected of the savior prophesied in the name of Jesus Christ. Could this be "their neglect of others"?

They performed flashy miracles but if you are equating them with the goats of Matt 25, then they did not attend to the more modest matter of providing for people's basic needs.

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No! The problem you have with this analogy is the fact that I CAN earn a home. I have the capability to do so. Eternal life on the other hand is beyond my ability to earn. It can only be received as a gift.

So if your eternal life is beyond your "ability to earn", why does your "savior" demand a lifetime of worthy behavior from you?

No worthy behavior = no LDS eternal life.

Yet you still prefer to beleive "eternal life" is beyond your "ability to earn"...

FormerLDS, on 14 December 2009 - 03:04 PM, said:

Likewise, a reward is the result of worthy behavior, not a gift.

And that is a false dichotomy!

How can a gift be anything but a gift?

It's a true dichotomy since you cannot ever earn a gift.

Then it would be a reward.

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They were left out because works without faith is dead.

Just like faith without works is dead, being alone.

Faith AND works are necessary for salvation.

:P

But they did works in the name of Jesus Christ (Mt 7:21-22).

They had faith, and they had works.

Yet the savior rejected them.

Why?

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So if your eternal life is beyond your "ability to earn", why does your "savior" demand a lifetime of worthy behavior from you?

Becuase he wants you to become someone better than you are.

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But they did works in the name of Jesus Christ (Mt 7:21-22).

They had faith, and they had works.

Yet the savior rejected them.

Why?

Because despite their faith to perform miracles, they still worked iniquity, and if you are equating them with those of Matt 25, then they did not care for their brethren as they should have. At any rate it is not works as such which are the problem.

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How can a gift be anything but a gift?

It's a true dichotomy since you cannot ever earn a gift.

Then it would be a reward.

Nice to know that you consider grace a reward. Your honesty is refreshing.

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I'm still waiting for someone to address the cultural context and reciprocal system of grace and faith.

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Acutally from the parable of the sheep and the goats it is evident that they did not any works. When are you gonna get it? The parable is obvious that works are the only thing that separated the sheep from teh goats.

Do you not see the parable of the sheep and goats in Mt 25 describes the same judgement day event as described in Mt 7:21-23?

Clearly, the rejected of the savior were doing works in the name of Jesus Christ.

Christ did not know them because they did not have His eternal life in them.

Receiving eternal life IS the will of the Father. Those who receive HIS life, HIS body, HIS flesh, HIS water, HIS bread are those whom Christ knows. They meet the Father's demand of sinless perfection.

There is no other way, friends. ALL of your best efforts are, in reality, just filthy rags - even though you do them "in the name of Jesus Christ".

You MUST have HIS eternal life in you, or you will never be known of the savior.

Consider the day I personally met Jesus Christ. The day He became part of me, and I Him:

"Behold , I stand at the door, and knock : if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Rev 3:20

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Do you not see the parable of the sheep and goats in Mt 25 describes the same judgement day event as described in Mt 7:21-23?

Clearly, the rejected of the savior were doing works in the name of Jesus Christ.

Much like many money-grubbing, "miracle working" televangelists today.

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Becuase he wants you to become someone better than you are.

Why then doesn't your savior just give you eternal life.

Wouldn't that make you "better than you are"?

Friend, the true Jesus Christ of the Bible can give you His eternal life this every evening if you would only believe His words.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12

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Why then doesn't your savior just give you eternal life.

Wouldn't that make you "better than you are"?

Friend, the true Jesus Christ of the Bible can give you His eternal life this every evening if you would only believe His words.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12

Hmmm... Paul seems to have Missed your evangelical Love festival.

Philip 3

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

If he already had Eternal life, why was he still trying to attain it?

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Why then doesn't your savior just give you eternal life.

Wouldn't that make you "better than you are"?

Friend, the true Jesus Christ of the Bible can give you His eternal life this every evening if you would only believe His words.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12

And what does "believeth" mean? It is the verb pisteuo, the noun being 'faith.' (pistis) I've already provided a source that defined pistis as trust, loyalty, and commitment.

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Because despite their faith to perform miracles, they still worked iniquity, and if you are equating them with those of Matt 25, then they did not care for their brethren as they should have. At any rate it is not works as such which are the problem.

How can one cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and "not care for their brethren as they should have"?

Do you really believe this?

They did more than you, but they didn't make it.

Yet you still think you're somehow going to be ok since you said the sacrament prayer, and handed out literature for a few years.

Yeah, ok...

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How can one cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and "not care for their brethren as they should have"?

Do you really believe this?

They did more than you, but they didn't make it.

Yet you still think you're somehow going to be ok since you said the sacrament prayer, and handed out literature for a few years.

Yeah, ok...

This is assuming that they actually did cast out demons. This could have been one of their "wonderful works," "deeds of power," or "miracles." I mentioned televangelists before. They supposedly "cast out devils" all the time.

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This is assuming that they actually did cast out demons. This could have been one of their "wonderful works," "deeds of power," or "miracles." I mentioned televangelists before. They supposedly "cast out devils" all the time.

You can buy anything in the world with money. Even studio audiences.

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Hmmm... Paul seems to have Missed your evangelical Love festival.

Philip 3

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

If he already had Eternal life, why was he still trying to attain it?

Read the rest of the chapter Zak. He's referring to attaining physical resurrection and bodily perfection.

In verses 15-16, he refers to the perfection he already has attained (eternal life):

"15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded : and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded , God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."

Again, he didn't have bodily, physical perfection. Last verse in the chapter (v.21) make this obvious:

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

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You can buy anything in the world with money.

Can you say that? shok.gif

J/K. Couldn't help it. pardon.gif

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Why then doesn't your savior just give you eternal life.

Why does your saviour require you to confess with your mouth before saving you?

Wouldn't that make you "better than you are"?

No.

Friend, the true Jesus Christ of the Bible can give you His eternal life this every evening if you would only believe His words.

His eternal life? His life is his own. I'm sorry, I'll take the scriptures over you any day.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

Note that it does not say MY everlasting life.

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12

But not he that hath the Son hath the Son's life.

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How can one cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ and "not care for their brethren as they should have"?

Do you really believe this?

They did not take care of any of the things which were not dramatic, such as feeding, clothing and caring for them.

They did more than you, but they didn't make it.

CFR that they did more than me.

Yet you still think you're somehow going to be ok since you said the sacrament prayer, and handed out literature for a few years.

Yeah, ok...

No, I don't believe in once saved, always saved. That is a protestant heresy.

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Again, he didn't have bodily, physical perfection.

Neither did any of the men the Bible calls perfect.

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16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained , let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing."

This obviously is not talking about the bodily resurrection!!!

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