Who Knows What Eeevil Lurks in the Heart of FARMS

[MormonMason]

Just to clarify: The claim is that FARMS blocked the distribution of Meldrum's book at Deseret Book, not publication. The book has already been published.

That more exact framing of the claim still cannot be substantiated. FARMS does not have the muscle or authority to block publication and or distribution of anything outside of their realm. That people are going to take such a claim seriously speaks veritable volumes concerning their intellectual aptitude.

Yet another confirmation of Novak's Rule, I'm afraid...

[MormonMason]

Is there the slightest chance that you'll read the book?

Just curious.

Paul O

I might read the book. I have already seen the presentations, however, and it was not difficult to find a number of problems in just that scenario at the time. I honestly cannot understand why Deseret Book would want to publish something like that, assuming the material in the book is akin to what was in the presentations. But, I will admit that there have been a number of times when I have questioned decisions made at Desert Book, so.....

[sethpayne]

That more exact framing of the claim still cannot be substantiated. FARMS does not have the muscle or authority to block publication and or distribution of anything outside of their realm. That people are going to take such a claim seriously speaks veritable volumes concerning their intellectual aptitude.

Yet another confirmation of Novak's Rule, I'm afraid...

I agree.

However, if some of the Brethren are concerned that Meldrum's book may damage people's testimonies, they may have some influence at what gets placed on the shelves at DB. -- Of course, I have absolutely no reason to believe, or even suspect, that this did happen.

[ERayR]

? I watched his video a few weeks back. And didn't get that notion from his presentation at all.

Are you referring to something he might have said years ago?

I didn't get either of those implications from his presentation either. Where are you getting this stuff?

1) Which "boundaries" are you referring to?

2) In what way is he attempting to "dictate" doctrine to Church leadership or membership?

1) I suspect you haven't reviewed his presentation for yourself. True?

2) I didn't get the impression he was trying to "prove" the Church true. What's your basis for saying that he is?

I watched his presentation a few weeks back also (in fact it is laying on top of my file cabinet right now) and came away with the same impressions that Droopy did.

[SlackTime]

I think Meldrum's market sense will ultimately lead him to make a deal with Chris Nemelka and we will ultimately have new revelations confirming his geography. Whaddaya think? A match made in heaven?

- SlackTime

[dblagent007]

I know a number of chapel Mormons that have looked at Meldrum's stuff. Every one of them comes away from his presentation believing that the DNA evidence only supports his theory. There is no other way to explain the DNA evidence.

This may be why this causes so much concern to FAIR. If lots of chapel Mormons think Meldrum's stuff is the only answer and then they find out how flawed it is, then they will fall away.

[SilverKnight]

I know a number of chapel Mormons that have looked at Meldrum's stuff. Every one of them comes away from his presentation believing that the DNA evidence only supports his theory. There is no other way to explain the DNA evidence.

This may be why this causes so much concern to FAIR. If lots of chapel Mormons think Meldrum's stuff is the only answer and then they find out how flawed it is, then they will fall away.

Agree 100%.

John Dehlin was spot-on when he said "bad apologetics" were worse for people's testimonies than legitimate criticism.

[notHagoth7]

I watched his presentation a few weeks back also (in fact it is laying on top of my file cabinet right now) and came away with the same impressions that Droopy did.

That's helpful.

To expand on that. do you recall specifically what was said that gave you that impression?

Also, out of curiosity, roughly how much reading about him on Fair did you do before viewing his presentation?

[neworder]

Just to clarify: The claim is that FARMS blocked the distribution of Meldrum's book at Deseret Book, not publication. The book has already been published.

I am sure DCP also meant the distribution of the book but it would be good for him to clarify this also.

[Calm]

I honestly cannot understand why Deseret Book would want to publish something like that, assuming the material in the book is akin to what was in the presentations.

DB did not publish the book, Digital Legend Press did. It appears to be a self-publishing service: http://www.digitalegend.com/

[Scott Lloyd]

DB did not publish the book, Digital Legend Press did. It appears to be a self-publishing service: http://www.digitalegend.com/

Does this outfit only publish books on line, or does it print hard-copy versions for distribution as well? Hard to tell from the Web site.

[Calm]

Does this outfit only publish books on line, or does it print hard-copy versions for distribution as well? Hard to tell from the Web site.

It was listed as the Amazon publisher so I'm thinking it does hard copy as well.

[poulsenll]

It was listed as the Amazon publisher so I'm thinking it does hard copy as well.

Self publishing companies are usually "publish on demand" and after a setup fee paid by the author, they print anywhere from several copies to thousands depending on demand. They are commonly used to print family genealogies and histories.

My daughter used to be a partner in a publish on demand company that served a number of different authors. In her case the company chose the books they wanted to publish and then edited them and marketed them. In the case of selfpublishers all this is left up to the author including all setup costs. Meldrum apparently has made enough money on this to afford the cost.

For a company like Deseret Book to carry and market a book they need to see a potential profitable market and in their case feel that the book fits into their market.

Larry P

[Scott Lloyd]

It was listed as the Amazon publisher so I'm thinking it does hard copy as well.

I'm wondering how they can offer a service of only printing a specific number of copies enough to meet demand. There are economies of scale associated with printing books.

On the other hand, vanity publishers have been around for a long time. This appears to be a new wrinkle on that old business model.

[Scott Lloyd]

Self publishing companies are usually "publish on demand" and after a setup fee paid by the author, they print anywhere from several copies to thousands depending on demand. They are commonly used to print family genealogies and histories.

My daughter used to be a partner in a publish on demand company that served a number of different authors. In her case the company chose the books they wanted to publish and then edited them and marketed them. In the case of selfpublishers all this is left up to the author including all setup costs. Meldrum apparently has made enough money on this to afford the cost.

For a company like Deseret Book to carry and market a book they need to see a potential profitable market and in their case feel that the book fits into their market.

Larry P

Thanks for the explanation, Larry. This was what I surmised. (See my post following yours.)

[Calm]

It's rather expensive in my view at $25 a book considering it's less than 300 pages and paperback.

You can get Rough Stone Rolling for half that at 3 times the length.....and that book is well worth it.

[Scott Lloyd]

It's rather expensive in my view at $25 a book considering it's less than 300 pages and paperback.

You can get Rough Stone Rolling for half that at 3 times the length.....and that book is well worth it.

Meldrum is trying to recover his costs, it would seem. As I said, economies of scale.

[notHagoth7]

I'm wondering how they can offer a service of only printing a specific number of copies enough to meet demand.

It's not all that different from a kinkos copying/binding service. But with a more professional binding.

This approach encompasses some of the new technologies I alluded to in the DB thread several months back.

Certain bookstores are even rolling out soon with a print-on-demand kiosk, where customers can have books printed and perfect-bound in the store while they wait. It means less inventory for the stores. Higher profits. Its time has come.

There are economies of scale associated with printing books.

Not if it only sells a few dozen per month.

So with niche books, it can be financially unwise to do a normal print run.

The other forum is making a big deal about nothing.

Meldrum will probably make a larger return by continuing to sell direct, instead of wholesaling through Deseret.

So DB hasn't hurt him at all.

On the other hand, vanity publishers have been around for a long time. This appears to be a new wrinkle on that old business model.

It's for niche markets.

(Which includes most books.)

Authors would be unwise to not consider print on demand.

I know someone who has been doing print on demand for years, and he told me a few years back that he makes a much better return doing things that way (and selling direct) than if a traditional publisher paid him royalties off of a much larger market.

[Scott Lloyd]

The other forum is making a big deal about nothing.

Meldrum will probably make a larger return by continuing to sell direct, instead of wholesaling through Deseret.

So DB hasn't hurt him at all.

It seems obvious to me he's after the prestige and credibility he thinks Deseret Book distribution would bring him. The same motivation seems to be behind his showcasing the endorsements of Elder Rector and Kieth Merrill.

[Scott Lloyd]

I know someone who has been doing print on demand for years, and he told me a few years back that he makes a much better return doing things that way (and selling direct) than if a traditional publisher paid him royalties off of a much larger market.

I understand that author royalties are a very small piece of pie. Hence, a book has to be very popular for an author to make any money to speak of through a traditional publisher.

[MormonMason]

DB did not publish the book, Digital Legend Press did. It appears to be a self-publishing service: http://www.digitalegend.com/

Oh. Thanks for letting me know (I had not even seen the book but have just heard a little about it). It explains the $25.00 price tag, though.

[cinepro]

If the book is being published-on-demand, I doubt DB would even consider it. Have they ever distributed such a book before? If Meldrum was asking them to publish it as well, then there are some serious economic considerations, and considering the depressed state of the book market right now (and presumably, the LDS book market), I don't blame them for being cautious.

FYI, you can download the first three chapters, as well as the Kieth Merrill intro, from Meldrum's website. It requires an email confirmation. But that shouldn't stop you.

Having read the sample, I can attest that if this book became widely accepted among LDS, it would be very damaging to the "FARMS" mentality.

First, it is a very easy read. I could imagine anyone in my ward over the age of 14 reading and enjoying this book. It doesn't feel like homework to read; it's almost a conversational tone.

But second, it also has the feel of being very scholarly. It has tons of quotes (and endnotes); everything is referenced. Arguments are presented logically and systematically. It isn't a "devotional" book. You feel like you're learning something.

At the very least, this book shows what FARMS should have done. In addition to their books by Nibley and Sorenson (imposing with their language and size), perhaps they should have been publishing books that could appeal to wider audience of younger LDS, and LDS who don't want to feel like they're sitting in a college class while they're reading.

Heck, the first chapter is an extended argument against Sorenson's methodology; he's not extending any olive branches to the FARMS crowd with this book!

[MormonMason]

But why should we dumb down everything? If the Saints cannot read something maybe it is time that they do something about that. I, for one, am tired of having to special order things from bookstores because they carry books that largely are pulp-fiction crapola.

[Scott Lloyd]

If the book is being published-on-demand, I doubt DB would even consider it. Have they ever distributed such a book before? If Meldrum was asking them to publish it as well, then there are some serious economic considerations, and considering the depressed state of the book market right now (and presumably, the LDS book market), I don't blame them for being cautious.

FYI, you can download the first three chapters, as well as the Kieth Merrill intro, from Meldrum's website. It requires an email confirmation. But that shouldn't stop you.

Having read the sample, I can attest that if this book became widely accepted among LDS, it would be very damaging to the "FARMS" mentality.

First, it is a very easy read. I could imagine anyone in my ward over the age of 14 reading and enjoying this book. It doesn't feel like homework to read; it's almost a conversational tone.

But second, it also has the feel of being very scholarly. It has tons of quotes (and endnotes); everything is referenced. Arguments are presented logically and systematically. It isn't a "devotional" book. You feel like you're learning something.

At the very least, this book shows what FARMS should have done. In addition to their books by Nibley and Sorenson (imposing with their language and size), perhaps they should have been publishing books that could appeal to wider audience of younger LDS, and LDS who don't want to feel like they're sitting in a college class while they're reading.

Heck, the first chapter is an extended argument against Sorenson's methodology; he's not extending any olive branches to the FARMS crowd with this book!

From some of the content on Meldrum's Web site it is evident he could benefit from the services of a good proofreader. Is that the case with the book as well?

[MormonMason]

From some of the content on Meldrum's Web site it is evident he could benefit from the services of a good proofreader. Is that the case with the book as well?

If it is self-published, it is a good bet that it will have the same problems.

Some of my biggest problems with Meldrum's approach is that Mesoamerica is a far better match for elements of the Book of Mormon than a setting in what is now the United States.

The overall geography of Mesoamerica works far better, a number of cultural constructs in Mesoamerica work better when overlaid with that little that is recorded in the Book of Mormon, and the kinds of weather mentioned in the Book of Mormon just fit better overall.