Gene Cook-Mick Jagger airplaine conversation

[ToGo]

I am troubled by the tale told by Elder Gene R. Cook (now, GA emeritus) about a conversation on an airplane with Mick Jagger. Most of the time when stories of this type are told, the name of the person who acts in an unflattering way is withheld. A category description is, instead, used. For example, "rock star" rather than "Mick Jagger." Since Elder Cook used Mick Jagger's name, if it is untrue Elder Cook has borne false witness against another human being. This is venal in a way that Paul H. Dunn's made-up stories were not, as I cannot think of one where Dunn named someone specifically in a disparaging way.

It is not merely an innocent exaggeration to make the point that rock music can have a deleterious effect on the listener. Here, another human being is implicated by name, and attributed with saying his artistic work is 'designed to drive the kids to sex.'

For these reasons, it seems that verification that Jagger was on the flight would be of interest to earnest truth seekers, as many of the posters here. That verification could begin by determining the exact date of the flight that Elder Cook mentions that he sat by Jagger, and then looking for any published mentions of where Jagger was on that date. I am wondering if anyone that reads this board and lives in Utah has taken the time to check Elder Cook's journals to find out the date of the flight from Mexico City to Dallas or Houston. (I do not live in Utah.)

[Duncan]

Elder Cook's journals, if he keeps any, are his own and we don't have any right to them. Besides of which maybe he didn't even bother writing it down?

[Freedom]

This event took place prior to 1988 because that is the year I heard Elder Cook tell the story. Good luck trying to find out where Mr Jagger was on any specific date back then. Besides, who cares?

[ToGo]

I care. I care for the truth.

Elder Cook's eldest son, Troy Cook, has posted elsewhere on the Net that Elder Cook's journals are available for inspection at the Church Office Building and include an entry about the conversation with Mick Jagger aboard an airplane from Mexico City (when the Cook family was living there) to Dallas, but gives no more precise a date than November or December 1984.

[jwhitlock]

I care. I care for the truth.

So, since you care for the truth so much...

What would you do if you found out it was true?

What would you do if you found out it was false?

What's your motivation in finding out this particular fact?

[Kenngo1969]

Do you have any reason to believe Elder Cook was lying? If so, what is it? I think you're on thinner ice attempting to impugn Elder Cook's character than he is in specifying Mick Jagger by name. Mick Jagger probably doesn't even remember that particular conversation, and if he did, he probably wouldn't care that some uptight religous zealot (from his point of view) has recounted it and attributed one side of it to him. If Mick Jagger wouldn't care, why do you? (Just lookin' fer a convenient stick to beat the Saints over the head with, are ya? )

[WalkerW]

I care. I care for the truth.

How theatrical.

Of all the historical, political, philosophical, and spiritual truths that could be uncovered, let us seek the truth behind a supposed conversation between a Mormon and a rock star.

Knock yourself out.

[ToGo]

Why would someone seeking to factually verify this (or any other story) have his motives so impugned?

[Sevenbak]

Gene R. Cook tells this story personally during a address to student at a fireside at Ricks College in 88. It's not just in some journal somewhere.

He's always had an emphasis on the importance of music.

Here's the audio of his address. This is him speaking personally. I believe he is telling the truth about the incident, and I agree with him as well.

http://streaming.byui.edu/presentations/1988_11_29_Cook.wma

[WalkerW]

Mick Jagger probably doesn't even remember that particular conversation

Cook did say he was drinking

[jwhitlock]

Why would someone seeking to factually verify this (or any other story) have his motives so impugned?

Then all you have to do is to tell us what your intentions are. See my post #5.

[ToGo]

With the particular fact, whenever the topic arises--which in my circles it does more often than I care for--I would explain to doubters that Jagger was on the same flight with Elder Cook (if that turns out to be the fact) or explain to those that retell the story that it is not accurate (if it turns out that Jagger was not on the flight).

[ToGo]

Then all you have to do is to tell us what your intentions are. See my post #5.

Why are you more concerned with what one might do with truth than with what the truth may be?

[Daniel Peterson]

I'm absolutely shocked -- shocked, I tell you -- that anybody could have ever publicly suggested that Sir Michael Philip "Mick" Jagger is less than completely virtuous and devoted to principles of chastity and monogamy.

I don't believe I've ever heard anybody impugn his character on this subject before, and, surely, such allegations cannot possibly be true.

For a profile of Sir Michael that vividly illustrates his fidelity to old-fashioned family values, see the subsection entitled "Personal Life" at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Jagger

This cries out for a full investigation! A man's public reputation for morality and virtue is at stake!

[ToGo]

So, Mr Peterson, you have interlineated the commandment to be, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy worthy neighbour?

[Daniel Peterson]

So, Mr Peterson, you have interlineated the commandment to be, Thou shalt not bear false witness against your worthy neighbour?

No, Prof. Dr. ToGo, I have not.

I have no reason whatsoever to suspect Elder Cook of having borne false witness. If you believe that he has, you are welcome to try to make your case.

As things stand, Mick Jagger has a well-earned reputation for sexual promiscuity and infidelity, such that Elder Cook's story seems both plausible and unlikely to damage Mr. Jagger's reputation for sexual immorality any more than Mr. Jagger's own behavior has already damaged it. Moreover, it doesn't strain credulity too much to imagine that the music of the Rolling Stones might have something to do with sex. We're scarcely talking about a chamber quartet here, after all.

I simply don't see anything in this story, at the moment, to justify a sense of outrage or injustice.

And I say this as somebody who attended his first Stones concert before he was able to drive.

[katherine the great]

I see two things wrong with this thread. First of all, I heard this story waaaayyyyyy before 1988. In fact I heard it in the late 70's except that the name of the "rock star" was not disclosed at that time. The second thing wrong is that Mick Jagger has ABSOLUTELY no character worthy of protecting. It is exactly the type of thing that Mick Jagger would have said and done at that period of his life so I don't doubt it in the least. I would even go so far as to say that Mick Jagger couldn't care less about this story one way or another. No harm no foul either way.

[ToGo]

This account told by Elder Cook has been questioned from the time of its first telling.

Whether it happened can be easily verified. Jagger was either on the flight with Elder Cook or he wasn't.

In trying to find out, I have simply asked whether anyone on this board has ever check Elder Cook's journals.

Seeking to find out the truth seems to have offended a handful of readers/posters on this board.

[Daniel Peterson]

This account told by Elder Cook has been questioned from the time of its first telling.

Whether it happened can be easily verified. Jagger was either on the flight with Elder Cook or he wasn't.

In trying to find out, I have simply asked whether anyone on this board has ever check Elder Cook's journals.

Seeking to find out the truth seems to have offended a handful of readers/posters on this board.

Have at it, Prof. Dr. ToGo. If it's easy to check, check it!

Personally, I really don't care.

As I say, I see no real reason to doubt Elder Cook's story, and I don't think it harmed Sir Michael's (terrible) reputation even a tiny bit.

[ToGo]

I see two things wrong with this thread. First of all, I heard this story waaaayyyyyy before 1988. In fact I heard it in the late 70's except that the name of the "rock star" was not disclosed at that time. The second thing wrong is that Mick Jagger has ABSOLUTELY no character worthy of protecting. It is exactly the type of thing that Mick Jagger would have said and done at that period of his life so I don't doubt it in the least. I would even go so far as to say that Mick Jagger couldn't care less about this story one way or another. No harm no foul either way.

Katherine the great,

Do you recall if in the 1970s it was Elder Cook that told the story about the 'rock star'?

Do you recall the venue where you heard it? Do you know of any written transcript of the live account you heard?

How does what you heard in the 1970s compare to the transcript that BYUI has of Elder Cook's 1988 talk (apart from 'rock star' being more specifically 'Mick Jagger')?

[BCSpace]

I'm absolutely shocked -- shocked, I tell you -- that anybody could have ever publicly suggested that Sir Michael Philip "Mick" Jagger is less than completely virtuous and devoted to principles of chastity and monogamy.

Please allow me to introduce myself

I'm a man of wealth and taste

I've been around for a long, long year

Stole many a man's soul and faith

I was 'round when Jesus Christ

Had his moment of doubt and pain

Made damn sure that Pilate

Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guess my name

But what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game

I stuck around St. Petersburg

When I saw it was a time for a change

Killed the tsar and his ministers

Anastasia screamed in vain

I rode a tank

Held a general's rank

When the blitzkrieg raged

And the bodies stank

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guess my name, oh yeah

Ah, what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

I watched with glee

While your kings and queens

Fought for ten decades

For the gods they made

I shouted out,

"Who killed the Kennedys?"

When after all

It was you and me

Let me please introduce myself

I'm a man of wealth and taste

And I laid traps for troubadours

Who get killed before they reach Bombay

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah

But what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah

But what's confusing you

Is just the nature of my game

Just as every cop is a criminal

And all the sinners saints

As heads is tails

Just call me Lucifer

'Cause I'm in need of some restraint

So if you meet me

Have some courtesy

Have some sympathy, and some taste

Use all your well-learned politesse

Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah

Pleased to meet you

Hope you guessed my name, um yeah

But what's puzzling you

Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down

Woo, who

Oh yeah, get on down

Oh yeah

Oh yeah!

Tell me baby, what's my name

Tell me honey, can ya guess my name

Tell me baby, what's my name

I tell you one time, you're to blame

Oh, who

woo, woo

Woo, who

Woo, woo

Woo, who, who

Woo, who, who

Oh, yeah

What's my name

Tell me, baby, what's my name

Tell me, sweetie, what's my name

Sympathy for the devil

[ToGo]

BCSpace,

Did you find this recitation of the lyrics to Sympathy for the Devil (Jagger/Richards) in Elder Cook's journals? (These lyrics certainly seem to be designed to drive the kids to sex.)

[rodheadlee]

Honky Tonk Woman lyrics

I met a gin-soaked bar room queen in Memphis

She tried to take me upstairs for a ride

She had to heave me right across her shoulder

Cause I just can't seem to drink you off my mind

It's the Hooooonky tonk women that

gimmie gimmie gimmie the honky tonk blues

I laid a divorcee in New York city

I had to put up some kind of a fight

The lady then she covered me with roses

She blew my nose and then she blew my mind

It's the Hooooonky tonk women that

gimmie gimmie gimmie the honky tonk blues

Yeah alllll right

It's the Hooooonky tonk women that

gimmie gimmie gimmie the honky tonk blues

It's the Hooooonky tonk women that

gimmie gimmie gimmie the honky tonk blues

Send "Honky Tonk Woman" Ringtone to your Cell Phone!

Browse Other Rolling Stones Lyrics

Is that close enough? I really don't want to bother searching for more.

[ToGo]

BCSpace,

Were these the lyrics designed to drive the kids to sex?

DOUBLE LOVIN'

I'm gonna double your lovin

Double your fun

You get two for the price of one

It took me a long time to find a good woman

One that would be true

That's why I'm gonna double what it takes baby to hold on to you

I'm gonna make my lovin twice as good as it was before

I'm gonna love you so good

You'll be begging and crying for more

Double, double lovin

Is what I'm gonna give to you

and you're gonna receive double pleasure everytime I do

Double, double lovin makes you feel so good inside

And when I bdouble up on mylovin

You're gonna be satisfied

I'm gonna double up on my huggin

And my kissin too

And I got a double stroke of lovin

I've been dying to use on you

don't be afraid to give me your love

Cause I won't hurt you

[BCSpace]

Did you find this recitation of the lyrics to Sympathy for the Devil (Jagger/Richards) in Elder Cook's journals? (These lyrics certainly seem to be designed to drive the kids to sex.)

No and maybe. I simply thought "man of wealth and taste" was a perfect counterpoint to what DCP said. Nothing more.

Were these the lyrics designed to drive the kids to sex?

Perhaps. Are you familiar with "Brown Sugar"?