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kamenraider

The Law Of Plural Marriage -- Suspended? Or Revoked?

  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. The priesthood law requiring plural marriage was...

    • suspended.
    • revoked.
    • neither suspended nor revoked -- only the practice of it was suspended by the Church.
    • I don't believe there is such a law.
    • Other (explain below)


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Was the law of the priesthood requiring plural marriage supended? Was it revoked?

What's the difference between it being suspended and it being revoked?

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1. There is no "law" requiring Plural Marriage. There is simply that those whom are called, are called to live it, so only in that sense would could it be likened unto a law that we can choose to follow or not.

2. Most people are not required to live plural marriage, so there is no law in that sense either.

3. Plural Marriage (sealings) were not discontinued, only Polygamy was.

4. Polygamy and Plural Marriage has been given and taken away according to God's Will all through time, so it will always be a "law" "Truth" until the Lord gives it again if necessary.

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3. Plural Marriage (sealings) were not discontinued, only Polygamy was.

?

Help me understand the distinction between the two.

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1. There is no "law" requiring Plural Marriage. There is simply that those whom are called, are called to live it, so only in that sense would could it be likened unto a law that we can choose to follow or not.

As I understand it, while it is true that few were required to follow the law of polygamy on Earth, the law is a higher law which all of us will be required to follow in the CK.

Polygamy still exists in a certain form in Mormonism. Men can have 2 or more women sealed to them and they are bound in Heaven.

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Scottie:

Nope, samerules apply in the Celestial Kingdom. For ONLY those that are asked will it be a requirement.

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1. There is no "law" requiring Plural Marriage. There is simply that those whom are called, are called to live it, so only in that sense would could it be likened unto a law that we can choose to follow or not.

I meant "required" in the sense of required in order to receive the resultant blessings, such as innumerable seed and exaltation.

from D&C 132:

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.

24 This is eternal livesto know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

...

30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loinsfrom whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Josephwhich were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

32 Go ye, therefore, and do the works of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

34 God commanded Abraham, and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

2. Most people are not required to live plural marriage, so there is no law in that sense either.

Most people aren't even LDS. Most LDS don't have temple reccomends.

from D&C 132:

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

3. Plural Marriage (sealings) were not discontinued, only Polygamy was.

I assume by "Polygamy" you mean unlawful cohabitation. That was given up.

Men are still sealed to multiple spouses when one or more are deceased or one is divorced. This is polygamy. The term refers to the type of marriage, not necessarily a lifestyle.

4. Polygamy and Plural Marriage has been given and taken away according to God's Will all through time, so it will always be a "law" "Truth" until the Lord gives it again if necessary.

A Key: Every principle proceeding from God is eternal and any principle which is not eternal is of the devil.

--Joseph Smith, TPJS pg. 181.

from D&C 132:

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.

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Scottie:

...For ONLY those that are asked will it be a requirement.

CFR

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It was revoked. What some folks seem to forget, even some of the early authorities of the church, is that plural marriage was not the norm â?? it was the exception.

One of the things that convinces me that there were people already in the promised land when Nephi arrived is this proclamation, through Jacob, regarding the marrying of more than one wife. Too often such marriages were made to cement bonds between the people of God and people with strange gods.

In the case of David and Solomon, some wives had been given them of God; others had been taken as trophies or as a means of forming alliances. The foreign wives were thus distractions, and in the case of some of Israel's kings, they brought not only heathen worship, but worship that included human sacrifice. There also were cases where men built up large harems of wives for their own egos and gratification.

Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; for I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women, and whoredoms are an abomination before me. ... Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes. For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands. And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts. (Jacob 2)

Not only did the foreign wives bring in abominable practices and heathen worship, they destroyed the integrity of the marriages with the other wives, as well as sowing discord.

I believe in the case above, that the Lord specifically was forbidding marriages with women from other cultures in this land. What He was telling Jacob is that one man, one wife is the law of the church. The early Nephites may have wanted to "raise up seed" unto the Lord, but unless He commanded them, they were to practice monogamy.

In the early days of the church, there was a legitimate reason for the Lord to want to raise up seed, too, but it would be done within the confines of the law He gave. Wives were available who were members of the church and corruption was not as likely. It also was a restoration of divine law (the giving of wives to men for that purpose). But it was not to be the general law of the church from then on, but an exception.

Those are my views. Although Joseph Smith had to abide by the law given to him by God, he still made it clear that one man, one wife, was the exception. Seeing photos of many of those women, I certainly don't believe the marriages were for carnal reasons.

4243R.jpg

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It was revoked.

Revelation to Pres. John Taylor, Sept 27, 1886:

1886rev.jpg

"I have not revoked this law nor will I for it is everlasting and those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof, even so Amen."

What some folks seem to forget, even some of the early authorities of the church, is that plural marriage was not the norm — it was the exception.

...

It was the exception rather than the norm? Could this have been due to the wickedness of the people?

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kamenraider:

The only part of D&C 132 has ever been revoked was the practice in this life. Add in that few members were ever asked to practice it in this life. To make the claim that it is a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom would exclude the vast majority of members of the Church.

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Revelation to Pres. John Taylor, Sept 27, 1886:

"I have not revoked this law nor will I for it is everlasting and those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof, even so Amen."

What further info is there about this 1886 item?

And what conditions are laid out?

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kamenraider:

The only part of D&C 132 has ever been revoked was the practice in this life. Add in that few members were ever asked to practice it in this life. To make the claim that it is a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom would exclude the vast majority of members of the Church.

Well, first of all, polygamy is not a requirement for the celestial kingdom, nor is any kind of marriage. Exaltation is a different matter.

To make the claim that being married in the temple, and remaining faithful, is a requirement for exaltation would also exclude the vast majority of members of the Church.

See the D&C 132 quote above containing the phrase "few there be that find it".

edit: Regarding how you wrote above "Add in that few members were ever asked to practice it in this life," and about the idea of needing to be asked in order to live it, the revelation in post #9 above states "Have I not given my word in great plainness on this subject? Yet have not great numbers of my people been negligent in the observance of my law and the keeping of my commandments, and yet have I borne with them these many years; and this because of their weakness—because of the perilous times, and furthermore, it is more pleasing to me that men should use their free agency in regard to these matters. Nevertheless, I the Lord do not change and my word and my covenants and my law do not, and as I have heretofore said by my servant Joseph: All those who would enter into my glory must and shall obey my law."

Oh, and again, CFR about that.

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Here's a quote that says the law was (permanently?) suspended rather than revoked (as if there's much of a difference between the two):

The members of the Church are reminded that the practice of polygamous or plural marriage is not the only law whose suspension has been authorized by the Lord and adopted by the people.

--Messages of the First Presidency 5:327

edit: One wonders how plural sealings can even be performed still, as I mentioned in post #6 above, if the law regarding "plural marriage" has been somehow suspended.

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Just to balance Kamenraider's D&C posts:

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.

32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.

34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.(Jacob 2)

But I'm sure someone will soon quote one verse from Jacob. Namely Jacob 2:30.

Hopefully those who read the rest of Jacob will see how polygamy really affects women. And if this was the "law given unto Abraham", funny that the Nephites knew nothing about that. But I'm realistic, and await more scriptural gymnastics.

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What further info is there about this 1886 item?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1886_Revelation

Note this from the wiki article:

"The LDS Church, which officially abandoned polygamy in 1890, does not accept the authenticity of the revelation."

If the revelation is not authentic, was it forged? It was found among John Taylor's papers on his desk, shortly after his death, at the Rouche home, by his son John W. Taylor, who was also a member of the Quorum of the Twelve. The idea of it having been forged is just ridiculous. There would be no motive, as OD 1, the manifesto, hadn't even been issued yet.

Note this from the wiki article also:

"Photographs of the original document exist, but the document itself is now missing."

Convenient, no?

And what conditions are laid out?

The conditions are simply all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant of marriage:

You ask some other questions concerning how many living wives a man must have to fulfil the law.

When a man, according to the revelation, marries a wife under the holy order which God has revealed and then marries another in the same way, he enters into the new and everlasting covenant, and so far as he has gone he has obeyed the law.

--Wilford Woodruff letter to Bishop S. A. Woolley (9th Ward, SLC) May 22, 1888, First Presidency letterpress copybooks, 1877-1949, Vol. 18: 841-843

The new and everlasting Covenant is marriage, plural marriage. Men may say that with their single marriage the same promises and blessings had been granted: 'Why cannot I attain to as much as with three or four?' Many question me in this manner; I suppose they are afraid of [the] Edmunds[-Tucker Act]. What is the covenant? It is the eternity of the marriage covenant, and includes a plurality of wives, and takes both to make the law. The Lord leads the mind step by step to this point. First, that all covenants must be made by his power. Next, the eternity of the covenant reaching into eternity. After this the Lord tells us what the law is and how he justified his servants. God commanded Abraham and Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham because this was the law ordained for the fullness and glory of God before the world was. This was the law and from Hagar sprang many nations. The Lord has said that to whom this revelation is given, that they are eligible to this law, its blessings and its requirements. The men can only be saved by acts of righteousness and the women are under the same law. Joseph Smith declared that all who become heirs of God and joint heirs of Christ must obey his law or they cannot enter into the fullness, and if they do not they may loose the one talent. When men are offered knowledge and they refuse it they will be damned and there is not a man that is sealed by this priesthood but covenants to enter into the fullness of the law, and the same with the woman. She says she will observe all that pertains to the new and everlasting covenant. Both are under the covenant, and must obey if they wish to enter into a continuation of the lives or of the seeds.

--President Wilford Woodruff, Quarterly Conference held March 3rd and 4th, 1883; Sunday, 2 PM, Utah Stake Historical Record #64904/CH0/1877-1888, pg. 271.

Our young people come here to be married to be husband and wife through all eternity taking upon them covenants to observe all the laws, rites and ceremonies pertaining to the Holy order of matrimony, this is the way God has established, and the ceremony that seals one wife to a man seals other wives. And when a man takes a wife they enter this sacred order and covenant to observe all the rites in this. The man covenants to take more wives, the woman covenants to do the part of Sarah and gives her consent for him to take more wives. Hoped the young people would understand these things. A covenant not kept is a covenant broken. When we enter that covenant we must continue in it. Still there is no one here who will say you shall take more wives, that is left entirely with yourselves.

--James G. Bleak, St. George Temple Minute Book, October 4, 1888, pgs. 102-103.

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Just to balance Kamenraider's D&C posts:

But I'm sure someone will soon quote one verse from Jacob. Namely Jacob 2:30.

Hopefully those who read the rest of Jacob will see how polygamy really affects women. And if this was the "law given unto Abraham", funny that the Nephites knew nothing about that. But I'm realistic, and await more scriptural gymnastics.

Tell me Ray, does this passage from Jacob 2 describe the correct practice of celestial plural marriage, or does it just describe polygamy?

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Tell me Ray, does this passage from Jacob 2 describe the correct practice of celestial plural marriage, or does it just describe polygamy?

My question is how come the Nephites seemed to know nothing about "Celestial marriage", which was supposedly given to Abraham (see D&C 132). Did David only practice polygamy? Or did he practice "Celestial marriage"?

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My question is how come the Nephites seemed to know nothing about "Celestial marriage", which was supposedly given to Abraham (see D&C 132). Did David only practice polygamy? Or did he practice "Celestial marriage"?

D&C 132:39 Davidâ??s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

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D&C 132:39 Davidâ??s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

So how does this square with Jacob 2:24?

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

And David only sinned in the case of Uriah?

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Polygamy was and is disgusting and uninspired. The way it was practiced from beginning (1830s) to end (early 1900s) is so absolutely and completely repulsive to everything I know to be good and right that I cannot believe it to be true in any way. It is a stain on the Church that will hopefully someday be removed.

I am glad that I was not in Nauvoo back in 1844. I would have sided with William Law on this issue.

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Polygamy was and is disgusting and uninspired. The way it was practiced from beginning (1830s) to end (early 1900s) is so absolutely and completely repulsive to everything I know to be good and right that I cannot believe it to be true in any way. It is a stain on the Church that will hopefully someday be removed.

I am glad that I was not in Nauvoo back in 1844. I would have sided with William Law on this issue.

Seriously?

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So how does this square with Jacob 2:24?

And David only sinned in the case of Uriah?

There is no contradiction between Jacob and the Doctrine and Covenants. Jacob, in the Book of Mormon, declared that the Lord prevented the Nephites from practicing plural marriage and called attention to the fact that David and Solomon sinned in taking wives that the Lord did not give them, which is true. However, the key to the situation may be found by reading further the account in Jacob. The Lord said:

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. (Jacob 2:30)

Is it not strange that the Lord did not condemn Abraham and Jacob (Israel) upon whom he founded the House of Israel; nor did he condemn the parents of Samuel, the great prophet, nor others who had plural wives; nor did he condemn others who had plural families. He did not condemn Solomon and David for having wives which the Lord gave them.

Now turn to 2 Samuel, 12:7-8, and you will find that the Lord gave David wives. In your reading of the Old Testament you will also find that Solomon was blessed and the Lord appeared to him and gave him visions and great blessings when he had plural wives, but later in his life, he took wives that the Lord did not give him. For evidence of this, turn to 1 Kings 11, and read it. You can tell these people that the whole house of Israel was built on the twelve sons of Jacob who had four wives -- mothers of the House of Israel.

--Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966, Vol. 4, pg. 213.

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There is no contradiction between Jacob and the Doctrine and Covenants. Jacob, in the Book of Mormon, declared that the Lord prevented the Nephites from practicing plural marriage and called attention to the fact that David and Solomon sinned in taking wives that the Lord did not give them, which is true. However, the key to the situation may be found by reading further the account in Jacob. The Lord said:

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. (Jacob 2:30)

So where does Celestial plural marriage come into this? Was it a provision? Did God ever say, in effect, "you shall abide by monogamy, unless I command Celestial plural marriage"? (If you read the BoM carefully, you'll see that this teaching was in accordance with "exceptions", not "rules" or "laws", and fits almost perfectly with what Abraham did, but not with the idea that polygamy was "essental to exaltation")

So how will the Nephites be saved? If this "law" goes back to Abraham, why were the Nephites exempt from observing it?

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There is no law that requires polygamy. The standards set forth in the Book of Mormon make it clear that polygamy as a lifestyle here on earth which can be an abomination in the sight of God. It is only allowed if authorized by the ACTING Prophet of the CofJCofLDS church--so it doesn't matter if there is a letter written by John Taylor or Joseph Smith or Benjamin Johnson or Lorin Woolley saying whatever. Right now--It is considered an abomination. If any LDS people practice this lifestyle here on earth at this time, they will be condemned for it in the next, because they were to follow the prophets in their day, not dead prophets--and when they stand to be judged for their choices, they will suffer the consequences for their disobedience.

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So where does Celestial plural marriage come into this? Was it a provision? Did God ever say, in effect, "you shall abide by monogamy, unless I command Celestial plural marriage"? (If you read the BoM carefully, you'll see that this teaching was in accordance with "exceptions", not "rules" or "laws", and fits almost perfectly with what Abraham did, but not with the idea that polygamy was "essental to exaltation")

So how will the Nephites be saved? If this "law" goes back to Abraham, why were the Nephites exempt from observing it?

"If a man gets the fulness of the priesthood of God, he has to get it in the same way that Jesus Christ obtained it, and that was by keeping all the commandments and obeying all the ordinances of the House of the Lord."

--Joseph Smith, TPJS, pg. 308.

I'm sure that everyone is saved and exalted according to the same set of laws and ordinances, no matter what time period they live in.

Some groups of people, though, are too wicked to be given more than lesser laws:

JST Exodus 33:20 And he said unto Moses, Thou canst not see my face at this time, lest mine anger be kindled against thee also, and I destroy thee, and thy people; for there shall no man among them see me at this time, and live, for they are exceeding sinful. And no sinful man hath at any time, neither shall there be any sinful man at any time, that shall see my face and live.

JST Exodus 34:1-2

1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two other tables of stone, like unto the first, and I will write upon them also, the words of the law, according as they were written at the first on the tables which thou brakest; but it shall not be according to the first, for I will take away the priesthood out of their midst; therefore my holy order, and the ordinances thereof, shall not go before them; for my presence shall not go up in their midst, lest I destroy them.

2 But I will give unto them the law as at the first, but it shall be after the law of a carnal commandment; for I have sworn in my wrath, that they shall not enter into my presence, into my rest, in the days of their pilgrimage. Therefore do as I have commanded thee, and be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai,

Contrast that with this:

JST Genesis 9:21-23

21 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant, which I made unto thy father Enoch; that, when men shall keep all my commandments, Zion should again come on the earth, the city of Enoch which I have caught up unto myself.

22 And this is mine everlasting covenant, that when thy posterity shall embrace the truth, and look upward, then shall Zion look downward, and all the heavens shall shake with gladness, and the earth shall tremble with joy;

23 And the general assembly of the church of the first-born shall come down out of heaven, and possess the earth, and shall have place until the end come. And this is mine everlasting covenant, which I made with thy father Enoch.

And this:

Verily, I say unto you, that the wisdom of man, in his fallen state, knoweth not the purposes and privileges of my holy priesthood, but ye shall know when ye receive a fullness by reason of the anointing: For it is my will, that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites, that their posterity may become white, delightsome and just, for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles.

--from a revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, west of Jackson County, Missouri, July 17, 1831

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