e=mc2 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I am just curious what you guys and gals say. The Muraoka grammar of Hebrew is a whopping two volumes. It seems by its description to be pretty extensive in its coverage. On the other hand I know Waltke O'Connor comes highly recommended. Which would be the best to have first? Link to comment
Urloony Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hey Kerry,Sorry I don't have an opinion on the books but wanted to mention that both are available for Logos. If you have your copy of Logos it may be cheaper than the printed versions, you could get both.Here and here. Link to comment
maklelan Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I am just curious what you guys and gals say. The Muraoka grammar of Hebrew is a whopping two volumes. It seems by its description to be pretty extensive in its coverage. On the other hand I know Waltke O'Connor comes highly recommended. Which would be the best to have first?One's a grammar and one's a syntax. They focus on different aspects of the language. Jouon-Muraoka also has a 2006 edition that's just one volume. That's the one I have. Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 One's a grammar and one's a syntax. They focus on different aspects of the language. Jouon-Muraoka also has a 2006 edition that's just one volume. That's the one I have.Doesn't matter which one you purchase first, they're both indispensable reference tools. In my humble opinion, no home should be without the following resources:Waltke and Oâ??Connor, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew SyntaxPaul Jouon and S.J. T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical HebrewKoehler and Baumgartner, The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old TestamentThe Brown, Driver, and Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old TestamentGeseniusâ?? Hebrew Grammar These are five of the most exciting books ever written. Don't let the title fool you, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax, is not a work for mere novices. Once a person learns to use these fundamental resources effectively, commentaries, though still somewhat helpful, become in many ways obsolete. They will never be nearly as much fun. Link to comment
ERMD Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Doesn't matter which one you purchase first, they're both indispensable reference tools. In my humble opinion, no home should be without the following resources:Waltke and Oâ??Connor, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew SyntaxPaul Jouon and S.J. T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical HebrewKoehler and Baumgartner, The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old TestamentThe Brown, Driver, and Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old TestamentGeseniusâ?? Hebrew Grammar These are five of the most exciting books ever written. Don't let the title fool you, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax, is not a work for mere novices. Once a person learns to use these fundamental resources effectively, commentaries, though still somewhat helpful, become in many ways obsolete. They will never be nearly as much fun.My home will forever be woefully inadequate. Link to comment
maklelan Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Doesn't matter which one you purchase first, they're both indispensable reference tools. In my humble opinion, no home should be without the following resources:Waltke and Oâ??Connor, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew SyntaxPaul Jouon and S.J. T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical HebrewKoehler and Baumgartner, The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old TestamentThe Brown, Driver, and Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old TestamentGeseniusâ?? Hebrew Grammar These are five of the most exciting books ever written. Don't let the title fool you, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax, is not a work for mere novices. Once a person learns to use these fundamental resources effectively, commentaries, though still somewhat helpful, become in many ways obsolete. They will never be nearly as much fun.Some additional ones that I've found helpful are van der Merwe's A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar and Arnold and CHoi's A Guide to Biblical Hebrew Syntax, which is a bit more of an intro than Waltke and O'Connor. Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Doesn't matter which one you purchase first, they're both indispensable reference tools. In my humble opinion, no home should be without the following resources:Waltke and Oâ??Connor, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew SyntaxPaul Jouon and S.J. T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical HebrewKoehler and Baumgartner, The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old TestamentThe Brown, Driver, and Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old TestamentGeseniusâ?? Hebrew Grammar These are five of the most exciting books ever written. Don't let the title fool you, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax, is not a work for mere novices. Once a person learns to use these fundamental resources effectively, commentaries, though still somewhat helpful, become in many ways obsolete. They will never be nearly as much fun.I couldn't agree more. I went with the Waltke O'Connor! YEAH! It looks FABULOUS! I shall be asking you questions about it if that's O.K. I will get the other one on my next pay day. I have the Logos software, and I couldn't be more impressed! Absolutely ***breathtaking*** how powerful and all encompassing this stuff is! And all the add ons extra books are automatically electronically linked so all I do is click and go!Some additional ones that I've found helpful are van der Merwe's A Biblical Hebrew Reference Grammar and Arnold and CHoi's A Guide to Biblical Hebrew Syntax, which is a bit more of an intro than Waltke and O'Connor.Yes! The BHRG is really quite a great book also! I am gathering all my references with the Logos software, and its astonishing how easy it makes research. I now get it - I really DO have an invaluable research assistant....... Link to comment
The_Monk Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Edit: Start by working through Waltke. It's much more readable, less of a reference.Bibleworks includes Gesenius, the new version of J&M and Waltke/O'Connor in the base No need to purchase separately. Plus, there's this nice window in which constantly updates with references to whatever verse you're looking at, so if I'm in Gen 1:1, it shows me links to everywhere all my grammars and lexicons refer to it. No need to run a search (as you must in Logos and Accordance.)Personal story: My first year of graduate Hebrew, we worked through (and were tested on) Lambdin, then Waltke'O'Connor, then both volumes of Jouon. Plus, the entirety of historical Hebrew grammar. Plus weekly textual readings, culminating in the DSS edition of Isaiah 40. It was intense. Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Edit: Start by working through Waltke. It's much more readable, less of a reference.Bibleworks includes Gesenius, the new version of J&M and Waltke/O'Connor in the base No need to purchase separately. Plus, there's this nice window in which constantly updates with references to whatever verse you're looking at, so if I'm in Gen 1:1, it shows me links to everywhere all my grammars and lexicons refer to it. No need to run a search (as you must in Logos and Accordance.)Personal story: My first year of graduate Hebrew, we worked through (and were tested on) Lambdin, then Waltke'O'Connor, then both volumes of Jouon. Plus, the entirety of historical Hebrew grammar. Plus weekly textual readings, culminating in the DSS edition of Isaiah 40. It was intense.Intense? That's insane! LOL! Um, the Logos sifts through it all also, and brings it up. I also have Bibleworks, and it is a screamer as well. Between the two, I suspect I can look up almost a little bit! Link to comment
JLFuller Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Doesn't matter which one you purchase first, they're both indispensable reference tools. In my humble opinion, no home should be without the following resources:Waltke and Oâ??Connor, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew SyntaxPaul Jouon and S.J. T. Muraoka, A Grammar of Biblical HebrewKoehler and Baumgartner, The Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old TestamentThe Brown, Driver, and Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old TestamentGeseniusâ?? Hebrew Grammar These are five of the most exciting books ever written. Don't let the title fool you, Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax, is not a work for mere novices. Once a person learns to use these fundamental resources effectively, commentaries, though still somewhat helpful, become in many ways obsolete. They will never be nearly as much fun.No home should be with them? I'll bet you are a fun guy at a party. What about the Rodney Dangerfield TV specials on video tape? Didn't you forget them? Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Plus, there's this nice window in which constantly updates with references to whatever verse you're looking at, so if I'm in Gen 1:1, it shows me links to everywhere all my grammars and lexicons refer to it. No need to run a search (as you must in Logos and Accordance.)Yes, but does Bible Works have the Ugaritic tablets? Link to comment
maklelan Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Yes, but does Bible Works have the Ugaritic tablets?Ha, ha, I just got the entire Ugaritic Data Bank in PDF form for free from a friend in Washington. I knew my Spanish would come in handy one day. Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Ha, ha, I just got the entire Ugaritic Data Bank in PDF form for free from a friend in Washington. I knew my Spanish would come in handy one day.Yes, but for those of us who don't speak Spanish, nor have friends in Washington, that Logos Ugaritic Library is schweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Ha, ha, I just got the entire Ugaritic Data Bank in PDF form for free from a friend in Washington. I knew my Spanish would come in handy one day.That's fantastic. Very nice that theChicago Assyrian Dictionary is now available on line for free.Yes, but for those of us who don't speak Spanish, nor have friends in Washington, that Logos Ugaritic Library is schweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!I'm an Accordance user, but I've been wondering about their software. It hasn't been morphologically tagged by Logos has it? Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 That's fantastic. Very nice that theChicago Assyrian Dictionary is now available on line for free.I'm an Accordance user, but I've been wondering about their software. It hasn't been morphologically tagged by Logos has it?No, not yet. But I can link the transcriptions with the English translation I received in the Logos "Original Languages" library I purchased. Their "Scholars Gold" was a little steep for me at the time. But here is what they have in the Ugaritic library that I now have. http://www.logos.com/products/details/2954The demo video by Dr. Heiser is interesting as well..... I love the Gordon and Dahood books!!! WOW! They are linked with the BDB also. Link to comment
maklelan Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 That's fantastic. Very nice that theChicago Assyrian Dictionary is now available on line for free.That is very helpful, but the pages take forever to load for some reason. I'm dreading having to take Akkadian in grad school, when I'll be forced to use the CAD. My friend also gave me PDF's of the Sanmartin/Del Olmo Lete dictionaries. It's amazing how much quicker translating goes with those resources. Link to comment
David Bokovoy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 That is very helpful, but the pages take forever to load for some reason. I'm dreading having to take Akkadian in grad school, when I'll be forced to use the CAD. My friend also gave me PDF's of the Sanmartin/Del Olmo Lete dictionaries. It's amazing how much quicker translating goes with those resources.Wow, man, I need a friend like that. Especially the dictionaries, since they are so dang expensive, and yet so essential for the field. I've got a copy from the library that I keep checking out over and over again. As long as your program doesn't require you to memorize the signs, Akkadian is not that bad. The signs, especially if you have to memorize Old Babylonian and Neo-Assyrian are quite challenging, but most programs don't require Biblicists to put them to memory. Assyriology is a lot of fun and absolutely essential for biblical studies. Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Wow, man, I need a friend like that. Especially the dictionaries, since they are so dang expensive, and yet so essential for the field. I've got a copy from the library that I keep checking out over and over again. As long as your program doesn't require you to memorize the signs, Akkadian is not that bad. The signs, especially if you have to memorize Old Babylonian and Neo-Assyrian are quite challenging, but most programs don't require Biblicists to put them to memory. Assyriology is a lot of fun and absolutely essential for biblical studies.Do you have any idea what kind of nut-jobs you and Maklelan and Monk appear to be? Assyrology is Fun?! LOL! No, I agree with you, I think it is FUN, but most won't so we shall forever go down as the group of nutjobs (along with several prominant FARMS dudes) who would rather study weird squiggles than watch television. Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Heh..... hey yous guys......... I remember reading lo those many years ago in one of Nibley's writings that a single word can be an entire sentence and have meaning out the ying yang. There is seldom a simply one-to-one correspondence of meaning between languages, nor even within themselves.... he was saying this in relation to the papyri and the Book of Abraham, and apparently the critics came unglued about it, accusing him of being desperate to find something....anything..... to save the BofAbr. Well, you know how critics love to spasm on things they don't understand...... So it is with considerable interest that I find in my brand new sparkling handy-dandy Waltke grammar (new for me that is) a most interesting example of this! And yes I am enjoying reading a bit of Hebrew here, a bit o Greek there on Easter. I consider that every bit as valuable as anything else one can do. A particular linguistic form may stand in several ranks: frequently a morpheme is a word, that is, words are often monomorphemic. A word may even be a clause or sentence. In 2 Kings 4, Elisha instructs Gehazi to approach the Shunammite and say,הֲשָׁלוֹם לָךְ הֲשָׁלוֹם לְאִישֵׁךְAre you well? Is your husband well? Is the boy well?הֲשָׁלוֹם לַיָּ֫לֶד2 Kgs 4:26The woman replies with the single word,שָׁלוֹם(We are all) well.2 Kgs 4:26This reply may be considered a word, a clause (of a reduced type treated below), and a simple sentence.Waltke, Bruce K. ; O'Connor, Michael Patrick: An Introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax. Winona Lake, Ind. : Eisenbrauns, 1990, p. 63 Link to comment
maklelan Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Wow, man, I need a friend like that. Especially the dictionaries, since they are so dang expensive, and yet so essential for the field. I've got a copy from the library that I keep checking out over and over again.Here at BYU the professors usually have all the good stuff checked out, and they get to keep it for like nine months. As a lowly undergrad I have no privileges, but that all ends in two weeks. As long as your program doesn't require you to memorize the signs, Akkadian is not that bad. The signs, especially if you have to memorize Old Babylonian and Neo-Assyrian are quite challenging, but most programs don't require Biblicists to put them to memory. Assyriology is a lot of fun and absolutely essential for biblical studies.Yeah, I know it'll help out a lot with Ugaritic and Aramaic, and it'll be nice to finally be able to translate some of the Babylonian stuff. Link to comment
The_Monk Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Whoa, hey now. I never said Akkadian was "fun." I've got scans of the DULOT for Ugaritic. They're big, but functional. And why not download the CAD instead of using it online? If you download them, it's a searchable pdf, not just a photo scan.Edit: Actually, DULOT is 70 Mb for the whole thing. That's downloadable Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 That's fantastic. Very nice that theChicago Assyrian Dictionary is now available on line for free.I'm an Accordance user, but I've been wondering about their software. It hasn't been morphologically tagged by Logos has it?You call $65 - $85 per volume of the 21 volume set free?!? Link to comment
The_Monk Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Click on the little down-arrow next to the dollar sign. The download and pdfs are indeed free. Link to comment
e=mc2 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Share Posted April 13, 2009 Click on the little down-arrow next to the dollar sign. The download and pdfs are indeed free.Aha! How interesting. Now then how do I download this onto my system so I can search it all? Link to comment
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