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lostindc

Can we put a nail in the coffin of Floyd Weston's 17 Points

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Can we put a nail in the coffin of Floyd Weston's 17 Points of the True Church or is it time to accept the story in the talk as not a fabrication? I realize Weston's talk has been discussed 5 or 6 times on this board, specifically regarding the accuracy of the events of 5 young men who ended up joining the LDS Church after one established a number of points from the Bible that the "true" Church should have.

So here is the question I ask: is the talk historically accurate, meaning is the story of the 5 men who were looking for the true Church and found the LDS Church a true story?

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From what I understand there were people who were involved with Weston in some way who were converted with some connection to his 17 points, etc. The list itself is pretty proof-text-tastic, and I wouldn't be sad to see it disappear into the annals of Jack West Land. Weston must needs read my blog:

http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2008/08/liken-with-care.html

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Can we put a nail in the coffin of Floyd Weston's 17 Points of the True Church or is it time to accept the story in the talk as not a fabrication? I realize Weston's talk has been discussed 5 or 6 times on this board, specifically regarding the accuracy of the events of 5 young men who ended up joining the LDS Church after one established a number of points from the Bible that the "true" Church should have.

So here is the question I ask: is the talk historically accurate, meaning is the story of the 5 men who were looking for the true Church and found the LDS Church a true story?

I,ve never read the book but the statistics should be correct. when one does look into the church with an open mind and spirit, truely searching and not simply fault finding mission. they usually do join up. :P

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From what I understand there were people who were involved with Weston in some way who were converted with some connection to his 17 points, etc. The list itself is pretty proof-text-tastic, and I wouldn't be sad to see it disappear into the annals of Jack West Land. Weston must needs read my blog:

http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2008/08/liken-with-care.html

It should be noted that I was on your fantastic blog yesterday. I am reading this linked post right now.

I got to admit that I am kind of disappointed that Weston's story is not 100% true. I really enjoyed that story and listened to it several times.

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It should be noted that I was on your fantastic blog yesterday. I am reading this linked post right now.

I got to admit that I am kind of disappointed that Weston's story is not 100% true. I really enjoyed that story and listened to it several times.

The 17 points were a great "testimony boost" for those who were already believers when I was on a Mission, but I never used them in preaching the Gospel because proof texts from the Bible is not how one should be converted to the Gospel. The seventeen points made for fun "bashing points" but the problem is most of those I had to argue with about the truth of the Church never were converted, they just came up with their own interpretation of what those Biblical scripture references meant.

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Can we put a nail in the coffin of Floyd Weston's 17 Points of the True Church or is it time to accept the story in the talk as not a fabrication? I realize Weston's talk has been discussed 5 or 6 times on this board, specifically regarding the accuracy of the events of 5 young men who ended up joining the LDS Church after one established a number of points from the Bible that the "true" Church should have.

So here is the question I ask: is the talk historically accurate, meaning is the story of the 5 men who were looking for the true Church and found the LDS Church a true story?

A story is a story is a story. It isn't supposed to be gospel. Who cares whether it happened or not?

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Floyd Weston told me himself in 1983 that it really happend, five friends studied four joined (one died). Now about the 17 points that's just interpretation of those scriptures. I once saw a 42 point one that was more detailed. But according to brother Weston and I have no reason to doubt him. Its true. According to Brother Weston's son he never denied it to his family either. Please stop trying to make Brother Weston out to be a Paul H Dunn.

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I'm sure he'd love to, but I'm pretty sure he died a couple of years ago.
Are there blogs in heaven? :P

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I'm sure he'd love to, but I'm pretty sure he died a couple of years ago.

I see no reason why the dead can'r spend time online.

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Probably.
If CARM is there I'm not going!

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Blogs in heaven?

It would depend on the blog. Monseigneur Plates' blog ain't half bad.

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Floyd Weston told me himself in 1983 that it really happend, five friends studied four joined (one died). Now about the 17 points that's just interpretation of those scriptures. I once saw a 42 point one that was more detailed. But according to brother Weston and I have no reason to doubt him. Its true. According to Brother Weston's son he never denied it to his family either. Please stop trying to make Brother Weston out to be a Paul H Dunn.

If this is true it is a relief. I loved that talk and I am glad to here its validation. Heck the missionaries were passing out cards with those points in 2005 in pittsburgh, pa.

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Blogs in heaven?

It would depend on the blog. Monseigneur Plates' blog ain't half bad.

So it's Terestrial?

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Floyd Weston told me himself in 1983 that it really happend, five friends studied four joined (one died). Now about the 17 points that's just interpretation of those scriptures. I once saw a 42 point one that was more detailed. But according to brother Weston and I have no reason to doubt him. Its true. According to Brother Weston's son he never denied it to his family either. Please stop trying to make Brother Weston out to be a Paul H Dunn.

Given the theme of the story, perhaps we could turn to the scriptures for the answer of whether or not the story is true? Don't the scriptures say that the truth is established by the mouth of two or three witnesses? That being the case, who, specifically, are the four people who were converted? What, specifically, do they themselves say about what happened?

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A story is a story is a story. It isn't supposed to be gospel. Who cares whether it happened or not?

Not Paul Dunn.

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A story is a story is a story. It isn't supposed to be gospel. Who cares whether it happened or not?

Your attitude makes me cringe, JLFuller. When we wonder why the saints have always had critics(enemies) it's because Joseph and the early leaders lived by your theory. The power of the story was what was important to them, not whether it was true in a way that satisfied non-believers. Mormons ever since have had to stand by every story, whether or not the facts lined up, or be labeled an "anti" or "apostate". The only way to do that may be to say "who cares whether it happened or not".

Who cares? Anyone with a degree of skepticism cares. For some people, any good feeling that comes from a story is more than extinguished when they find out the story may not be 100% true.

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Your attitude makes me cringe, JLFuller. When we wonder why the saints have always had critics(enemies) it's because Joseph and the early leaders lived by your theory. The power of the story was what was important to them, not whether it was true in a way that satisfied non-believers. Mormons ever since have had to stand by every story, whether or not the facts lined up, or be labeled an "anti" or "apostate". The only way to do that may be to say "who cares whether it happened or not".

Who cares? Anyone with a degree of skepticism cares. For some people, any good feeling that comes from a story is more than extinguished when they find out the story may not be 100% true.

CFR, specifically "Joseph and the early leaders lived by your theory. The power of the story was what was important to them, not whether it was true"

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Some of us discussed some of Weston's Points in early 2008 here. I dropped the ball, unfortunately, and didn't finish the "series."

cks

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CFR, specifically "Joseph and the early leaders lived by your theory. The power of the story was what was important to them, not whether it was true"

CFR? OK - Bennion Curio's personal opinion.

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CFR? OK - Bennion Curio's personal opinion.

Nicely done

In seriousness, sometimes the CFR thing does get annoying so I do understand the response.

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Can we put a nail in the coffin of Floyd Weston's 17 Points of the True Church or is it time to accept the story in the talk as not a fabrication? I realize Weston's talk has been discussed 5 or 6 times on this board, specifically regarding the accuracy of the events of 5 young men who ended up joining the LDS Church after one established a number of points from the Bible that the "true" Church should have.

So here is the question I ask: is the talk historically accurate, meaning is the story of the 5 men who were looking for the true Church and found the LDS Church a true story?

I sat in a meeting where Brother Weston himself told that story. I have no reason to question Brother Weston's veracity.

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I sat in a meeting where Brother Weston himself told that story. I have no reason to question Brother Weston's veracity.

See Packham's site (jump), where he claims to reproduce two posts from an old LDS listserv, presumably both by Latter-day Saints.

cks

EDIT: I would call your attention, as well, to John W.'s post on the Jan. 2008 thread to which I linked above: "When I worked for the church, Floyd Weston was on the list of people we weren't allowed to quote. Not only that, but if we found a citation to him in a previously published manual, we were to remove it. So, the church doesn't seem to put a lot of faith in his story."

I've never known John W. to show himself untrustworthy.

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