Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

consiglieri

Adam-god Theory--let's Really Talk About This!

Recommended Posts

...

If what Joseph Smith said about the Holy Ghost waiting to take a body is true, then we may already have passed through that experience, and may be going through a similar course of things to what the Savior has right now.

...

I believe that we can be saviors to our own families though.

...

How can we do that? I assume you don't believe were going to be nailed on a cross or something...

Share this post


Link to post
Along the lines of your thinking though...how would you harmonize them with the Brother of Jarods vision of Christ some...what...2000 years before He was born. Definitely a Spirit then. Do you hypothesize any about when you think He may have laid down a physical body?

I would expect that Christ would have had to lay down his body at some time at or around the fall of Adam, inasmuch as: (1) He would have to function as the Holy Ghost during the time that Adam was incarnated; and, (2) The PGP identifies the Holy Ghost who spoke to Adam as "the Only Begotten of the Father."

And a funny thing about the vision of the brother of Jared; although we seem to take it for granted that this was the spirit body of the Savior, the text indicates something different. It is not exactly clear what the text does indicate, but something other than just the spirit body seems a possiblity.

Note that Christ refers to "the body of my spirit."

Question: Is "the body of my spirit" the same as a "spirit body"? Could I not refer to my own physical body as "the body of my spirit"? I don't know.

More peculiar is that Jesus does not say that he appears in the body of his spirit; but rather that he appears "to be" in the body of his spirit. Why does it just "appear to be" the body of his spirit? I don't know.

Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

15 And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

It is an interesting passage, and one on which we are perhaps to quick to jump to conclusions.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Share this post


Link to post
How can we do that? I assume you don't believe were going to be nailed on a cross or something...

I'll qualify this...in saying I am not LDS, but this interests me.

If LDS believe Christ was doing what he had seen the Father do, and I suppose part of that seeing was getting nailed to a cross or something.....

Then, if it had been done twice, wouldn't it be the natural course of events that somewhere in this process of exaltation would be ....... getting nailed to a cross or something. Surely it wouldn't be watching your child get nailed to a cross so they could redeem a world for you.....would it? I've heard some say that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for everyone...but if that was the case...then who redeemed the Father?

Share this post


Link to post
I would expect that Christ would have had to lay down his body at some time at or around the fall of Adam, inasmuch as: (1) He would have to function as the Holy Ghost during the time that Adam was incarnated; and, (2) The PGP identifies the Holy Ghost who spoke to Adam as "the Only Begotten of the Father."

And a funny thing about the vision of the brother of Jared; although we seem to take it for granted that this was the spirit body of the Savior, the text indicates something different. It is not exactly clear what the text does indicate, but something other than just the spirit body seems a possiblity.

Note that Christ refers to "the body of my spirit."

Question: Is "the body of my spirit" the same as a "spirit body"? Could I not refer to my own physical body as "the body of my spirit"? I don't know.

More peculiar is that Jesus does not say that he appears in the body of his spirit; but rather that he appears "to be" in the body of his spirit. Why does it just "appear to be" the body of his spirit? I don't know.

It is an interesting passage, and one on which we are perhaps to quick to jump to conclusions.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

You know, my Mission President held the same opinion. He told me once when we were traveling to a zone conference. I didn't catch what he meant because of a language barrier, but I always knew he questioned what it meant entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
So are you purporting that Jesus has received more than one physical body? I believe there is one path to become as God the Father...THAT is purported in the scriptures. It says nothing of God the Son or God the testator.Blasphemous and heretical as it may seem to you...I've considered the same. Though the mathematical calculations seem mind boggling if all faithful shall have the opportunity to be Saviors for Billions.

edited to add, I would actually change your idea of thought process. Apparently JS said that if the HG was faithful, He could become as Jesus, and if Jesus is faithful, then He could become as God the Father. Are WE more special that we just go from mere imperfect mortals to God the Fathers status?

No not more than one physical body but maybe that body has been brought to mortality more than once. It appears to me that a physical body may be either mortal or immortal. Jesus Christ in mortality had a physical body and the resurected Jesus Christ had a physical body.

The conotation of a fall is dropping from a higher plain to a lower plain.

Share this post


Link to post
No not more than one physical body but maybe that body has been brought to mortality more than once. It appears to me that a physical body may be either mortal or immortal. Jesus Christ in mortality had a physical body and the resurected Jesus Christ had a physical body.

The conotation of a fall is dropping from a higher plain to a lower plain.

Well that just brings up a whole HOST of other issues then. If it is in fact the same physical body...you are then purporting that the body may be reformed into almost non-existence and re-grow. I doubt that Mary was pregnant with a microscopic fully formed body...so to me that kind of squashes the idea.

Share this post


Link to post
The conotation of a fall is dropping from a higher plain to a lower plain.

Which makes me wonder if the thrice-repeated Book of Mormon statement that God could cease to be God is more than hyperbole.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Share this post


Link to post
Which makes me wonder if the thrice-repeated Book of Mormon statement that God could cease to be God is more than hyperbole.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Sig,I'd be interested on your take on if Christ got another physical body (according to your understandings) and if not...do you think that same body was somehow made to be able to get back into a womb to be re-born?
Which makes me wonder if the thrice-repeated Book of Mormon statement that God could cease to be God is more than hyperbole.All the Best!--Consiglieri
Well,...normally those references have to do with sinning though.

Share this post


Link to post

In light of the previous discussion(s), I really think you LDS folks should lay off traditional Christian trinitarians.

Just sayin'.

cks

Share this post


Link to post
In light of the previous discussion(s), I really think you LDS folks should lay off traditional Christian trinitarians.

Just sayin'.

cks

Hey...I quite plainly stated that I had thought those heretical and blasphemous idea's. Never said I believed them!

Share this post


Link to post
Sig,I'd be interested on your take on if Christ got another physical body (according to your understandings) and if not...do you think that same body was somehow made to be able to get back into a womb to be re-born?

I do not think we are compelled to think that Christ has to keep using the same body over and over again in successive incarnations.

But I suppose he can do as he pleases.

He is God, after all.

And I would be reluctant to tell God there is something beyond his ability.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Share this post


Link to post
How can we do that? I assume you don't believe were going to be nailed on a cross or something...

There was a thread about this awhile ago: HERE

Here are some things I posted in it:

I think that once we have the fulness of the Melchizedek priesthood sealed upon us by the Holy Spirit of Promise and attain "the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" we become responsible for our own sins of omission or comission and their resultant effects.

D&C 132:26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
President Taylor: I am among men who understand these

matters--by the revelation where it says that "if they are sealed by the Holy

Spirit of Promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit

any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all

manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent

blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into

their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be

delivered over to the buffetings of Satan until the day of redemption"? (D & C

132:26)

Well, it is just on the same principle as that Peter spoke of, to people

of his day. He said, "Repent ye, therefore, and be converted, that your sins

may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence

of the Lord and he shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unto

you." Now what would be the law of God if carried out? What is it to be

destroyed in the flesh? What does that mean [sign of the Priesthood]? You all

know. What does that mean [another Sign of the Priesthood]? You all know. Now

if that was carried out--

Coun. Wells: Is that what is meant by being destroyed in the flesh?

President Taylor: I think it would be pretty near.

Coun. Wells: Well, cutting off the Church doesn't pay the penalty.

Prest. Taylor: Leave them in the hands of God, or in the hands of the devil.

--Salt Lake School of the Prophets Minute Book, ed. by Merle Graffam, SLC: Pioneer Press 1981, pg. 41.

D&C 104:5-6

5 For I, the Lord, have decreed in my heart, that inasmuch as any man belonging to the [united] order shall be found a transgressor, or, in other words, shall break the covenant with which ye are bound, he shall be cursed in his life, and shall be trodden down by whom I will;

6 For I, the Lord, am not to be mocked in these thingsâ??

D&C 78:11-12

11 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, to prepare and organize yourselves by a bond or everlasting covenant that cannot be broken.

12 And he who breaketh it shall lose his office and standing in the church, and shall be delivered over to the buffetings of Satan until the day of redemption.

1 Cor. 5:5

To deliver such an one [i.e. "one should have his fatherâ??s wife"] unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

He [brigham Young] also said that a person always had to experience the opposit & pass through sorrow, pain & affliction before he could be exhalted to glory & if a man had the exact glory that Jesus had he would have to die in the same way & if a man passed through this world without passing through the dregs of poverty he would have to pass through it hereafter before he could be exhalted to Eternal riches in their fulness.

--Brigham Young, quoted in Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Jan. 6, 1856.

John D. Lee was cut off from the Church for his part in the Mountain Meadows Massacre and for the attitude he took against the leaders of the Church, President Brigham Young supposedly. President Young never came to his final defense after they had protected him for 22 years. He was finally caught, President Young let him go to his death, because he knew if he did not, the Church would have to assume the consequences. Brother John D. Lee became the sacrifice for the sake of others. Fifty other men would have been shot to death if he hadn't been offered. He was a worthy sacrifice.

--Rulon C. Allred, Treasures of Knowledge, Hamilton, MT: Bitterroot, pgs. 153-154.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...