Eternal Progression

[jerryp48]

As soon as you take down your offensive avatar over at CARM I'll help you out. (unless your not that Russ)

[rhinomelon]

Actually, it's a good question, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind seeing some official sources for or against. I brought up LDS belief in class yesterday, talking about how the LDS church teaches that spirit is a refined material, not immaterial, etc. Someone else (a Catholic friend of mine) chimed in talking about Mormons believing they'll have their own planets to populate in eternity. I said that I'd heard that from some LDS individuals, but I didn't know if it was official teaching or one of those "semi-official" popular understandings based on non-official LDS sources.

I would be interested in a more official stance on this belief, if only to correct my friend when I see her tomorrow. And I won't quote you This is more for personal understanding.

Take care, everyone

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Actually, it's a good question, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind seeing some official sources for or against. I brought up LDS belief in class yesterday, talking about how the LDS church teaches that spirit is a refined material, not immaterial, etc. Someone else (a Catholic friend of mine) chimed in talking about Mormons believing they'll have their own planets to populate in eternity. I said that I'd heard that from some LDS individuals, but I didn't know if it was official teaching or one of those "semi-official" popular understandings based on non-official LDS sources.

I would be interested in a more official stance on this belief, if only to correct my friend when I see her tomorrow. And I won't quote you This is more for personal understanding.

Take care, everyone

There is no "official" teaching, I think this "doctrine" has evolved out of extension...if we can become "gods" (Note the little "g" as is listed in D&C) then many think that this would include all the "God" is and does. I pray this is not the case. I just want to live in his presence with my intact family. This will be enough for me

[Doctor Steuss]

Do current members of the LDS church believe that the concept of Eternal Progression includes the belief that Mormon men will become Gods over other planets

I believe that there aren't any limitations outlined in Romans 8:17.

where they'll procreate spirit-children with a celestial wife (or wives, D&C 132)

I believe that I still need to find a terrestrial wife.

where said spirit-children will take on tabernacles of flesh and bone (physical bodies)

It will be kind of hard to spank them if I don't give them bodies.

so that they too might inhabit a world

If I play my cards right, I'm hoping they will inhabit worlds without number.

where they'll learn and obey various laws and ordiances so that they too might have opportunity to later become Gods in their own right?

Nope. I will force them to be eternally subjugated to me in a state of stagnation. I'll be too self-centered and insecure to allow them to become anything more than mere creatures.

May I quote you?

No.

[Doctor Steuss]

Actually, it's a good question, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind seeing some official sources for or against. I brought up LDS belief in class yesterday, talking about how the LDS church teaches that spirit is a refined material, not immaterial, etc. Someone else (a Catholic friend of mine) chimed in talking about Mormons believing they'll have their own planets to populate in eternity. I said that I'd heard that from some LDS individuals, but I didn't know if it was official teaching or one of those "semi-official" popular understandings based on non-official LDS sources.

I would be interested in a more official stance on this belief, if only to correct my friend when I see her tomorrow. And I won't quote you This is more for personal understanding.

Take care, everyone

This is probably about as close to an "official" teaching you'll get:

Eternal Progression on Lightplanet

Most LDS probably take being a joint-heir with Christ quite literally, and as such believe that (through His grace) we will have all that He has, whether it be worlds, peace, joy, dancing monkeys, etc. Also, given the belief that we are literal children of G-d, it is logical that through inheritance we will have what G-d has.

-----

And, just as a treat: Eternal Progression in a Multiverse: An Explorative Mormon Cosmology

[rhinomelon]

Cool, dancing monkeys! Where do I sign up?

By the way, Doc, I was wondering if you knew of any websites that contain some or all of Blake Ostler's LDS systematic theology stuff. Or anything that he's done that might relate to how the LDS church sees human nature (i.e. is he body/soul or body/soul/spirit or whatever, and where all that eternal intelligence stuff fits in).

Take care, everyone

[David Bokovoy]

I believe that I still need to find a terrestrial wife.

Doc, I've got several possibilities. Just tell me the ages you're looking for.

[rhinomelon]

Just tell me the ages you're looking for.

Over 18, must have a pulse?

Sorry, Doc. Couldn't resist...

By the way, David, do you have any ideas on my question above? Actually, would you mind taking a look at this thread and posting any random ideas you might have? Looking for sources

Thanks! Take care, everyone

[David Bokovoy]

Hello Rhinomelon

By the way, David, do you have any ideas on my question above? Actually, would you mind taking a look at this thread and posting any random ideas you might have? Looking for sources

Sorry, my friend, I've lost all interest in apologetics and even scholarship these days. I'm here solely for the socializing.

However, since I can't think of any Evangelical Christian on the planet that I love and respect more than you, I'll give it a shot a little latter.

Hope all is well.

[Doctor Steuss]

Cool, dancing monkeys! Where do I sign up?

I knew it was only a matter of time before we snared you. Who woulda thunk it was dancing monkeys that would do the trick.

By the way, Doc, I was wondering if you knew of any websites that contain some or all of Blake Ostler's LDS systematic theology stuff. Or anything that he's done that might relate to how the LDS church sees human nature (i.e. is he body/soul or body/soul/spirit or whatever, and where all that eternal intelligence stuff fits in).

Take care, everyone

Anything of Ostler's that is available online should be here. I think Chris Salmon has been reading quite a bit of Ostler lately (far more than I've probably read), so maybe he will know of some specific articles. There is an article (I believe called "Re-envisioning the Mormon Concept of G-d") that might be what you're after. IIRC, although it was mostly about the godhead, it touched on the human aspect and progression (my memory might be off though). It was archived on a blog for a while, but I can't seem to find it (and the laptop I had it saved on crashed about a month ago). I know I gave a copy/link to Chris at some point in time, so hopefully he still has it.

Sorry I'm not more help my brother.

Doc, I've got several possibilities. Just tell me the ages you're looking for.

Something in the area of Dark to Middle Ages will do.

(Or 20-32ish)

[David Bokovoy]

Doc,

Something in the area of Dark to Middle Ages will do.

(Or 20-32ish)

Man, I have got the perfect girl for you; great sense of humor and I kid you not, she's absolutely gorgeous. Moreover, she's only about a six-hour drive south from Vegas.

[Doctor Steuss]

Doc,

Man, I have got the perfect girl for you; great sense of humor and I kid you not, she's absolutely gorgeous. Moreover, she's only about a six-hour drive south from Vegas.

The question on everyone's mind though is...

Does she like playing Scrabble?

[LifeOnaPlate]

I thought I knew you, Russ.

You have an amazingly disrespectful way of treating LDS beliefs. But maybe you can find some answers here:

[David Bokovoy]

The question on everyone's mind though is...

Does she like playing Scrabble?

You know, I'm not sure, but I think she prefers Twister.

[Dave Ellis]

Hello:

I'm writing an article on Eternal Progression to include on my website.

Do current members of the LDS church believe that the concept of Eternal Progression includes the belief that Mormon men will become Gods over other planets where they'll procreate spirit-children with a celestial wife (or wives, D&C 132) where said spirit-children will take on tabernacles of flesh and bone (physical bodies) so that they too might inhabit a world where they'll learn and obey various laws and ordiances so that they too might have opportunity to later become Gods in their own right?

May I quote you?

Russ Bales

G'day Russ, old friend.

"I don't know"

You can quote me if you like.

Actually, to go a little further... although I have heard all those ideas before, I'm not sure that I believe them myself. It certainly isn't what I think of when I hear or wonder about 'Eternal Progression.'

Of course, the chances of me having a wife, celestial or otherwise, are looking pretty slim at the moment. Do you know any girls who like Australian accents?

Regards,

Dave

[Olavarria]

Hello:

I'm writing an article on Eternal Progression to include on my website.

Do current members of the LDS church believe that the concept of Eternal Progression includes the belief that Mormon men will become Gods over other planets where they'll procreate spirit-children with a celestial wife (or wives, D&C 132) where said spirit-children will take on tabernacles of flesh and bone (physical bodies) so that they too might inhabit a world where they'll learn and obey various laws and ordiances so that they too might have opportunity to later become Gods in their own right?

May I quote you?

Russ Bales

Thats what I believe. But I would say "Mormon men and women might become Gods and Goddesses". Exaltation is for both men and women,together. I say "might" because there is such a thing as the final judgement and being mormon in and of itself doesnt gaurantee you this.

[MormonMason]

LDS.org is a big site. Might you help me find a link to the concept of men becoming Gods over other worlds?

You said you were looking for official beliefs to quote on your website. www.lds.org is the official website of the Church. You likely will not find anything relative to the idea of people having their own planets apart from God because there isn't anything official about it. None of our canonized scripture contains the concept and it is not a teaching of the Church. As to doing your homework for you, I already told you to go to the site because I will not do so. There is a search function, as has been brought up. Try all sorts of combinations to try and find what you need, not what you want.

Kinda' hard to distort something when there is no official belief or doctrine on the subject, isn't it?

[Bee Eff]

Hello:

I'm writing an article on Eternal Progression to include on my website.

Do current members of the LDS church believe that the concept of Eternal Progression includes the belief that Mormon men will become Gods over other planets where they'll procreate spirit-children with a celestial wife (or wives, D&C 132) where said spirit-children will take on tabernacles of flesh and bone (physical bodies) so that they too might inhabit a world where they'll learn and obey various laws and ordiances so that they too might have opportunity to later become Gods in their own right?

May I quote you?

Russ Bales

Do you believe all men are children of God? If you do, you already know and believe the answer. The Official LDS Doctrine is that we are all children of God, and we believe in the implications of the statement.

Or perhaps you could read the Bible some time if you want your answer:

Romans 8: 16-18

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Know ye not, I said ye are gods?

[Russ]

Russ,

Imagine Ann Coulter walking into the DNC and asking, "Can any of you tell me if you believe that higher taxes are a good thing, that guns should be banned, that illegal aliens should be given amnesty, and that Bush was responsible for 9/11? Can I quote you?"

With the reputation that a woman like her has, why would anyone be anxious to give her a quote?

Furthermore, like liberal views, (I can't believe I'm using this analogy) LDS personal beliefs are not one monolithic theology. As is witnessed by this board, we disagree sharply on many issues, including the nature of eternal progression.

If you manage to mine a juicy little quote that perfectly astonishes and wows your Evangelical readers, be sure to distinguish between a personal belief and the official beliefs endorsed by the LDS church.

Sargon

I understand, Sargon.

I'm looking for the real LDS theology.

What do you folks believe?

I'm more than familiar with what LDS prophets and apostles have claimed. I'll be quoting them extensively in my article.

What do you believe?

I have no problem at all telling you what I believe and disbelieve. I disbelieve LDS theology; but why does that stop you from stating what you believe? Just because I'm "anti?" Get past it, please.

Young stated, "Pick up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints, see if it will stand the test."

My response it this: Will do, Brigham.

[Russ]

You said you were looking for official beliefs to quote on your website. www.lds.org is the official website of the Church. You likely will not find anything relative to the idea of people having their own planets apart from God because there isn't anything official about it. None of our canonized scripture contains the concept and it is not a teaching of the Church. As to doing your homework for you, I already told you to go to the site because I will not do so. There is a search function, as has been brought up. Try all sorts of combinations to try and find what you need, not what you want.

Kinda' hard to distort something when there is no official belief or doctrine on the subject, isn't it?

Have LDS apostles and prophets stated that men become Gods over other planets? Yes.

Have they stated that they'll procreate spirit-children with at least one celestial wife? Yes.

Have they stated the spirit-children will take on a tabernacle of flesh and bone so that they too will become Gods over their own planets? Yes.

Do you disbelieve them?

If so, why should I believe you over them?

[Trencher7]

Ah, good ol Russ from CC and CARM. Comes over and presents himself as just someone who "believes differently". At least he admits he's a "critic". Yet he has quite another personality while amongst his anti-Mormon buddies. He posted this just yesterday on CARM-

A rebuke to LDS theology and those who bring it

LDS, your description of biblical Christianity is a disgrace before God and a mockery of the God of the Holy Bible and I rebuke the lies of the devil coming from you.

Only God is God (Isaiah 43:10) and you'll not become a God.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit let your stories of men becoming Gods over other planets be known for the pagan powers and principalities which possess it.

We need no secret handshakes to be found worthy. We need no secret name to pass on to supposed celestial sentinels to be found eligible of eternal life. All one needs is Jesus. We need no certificate from Joseph Smith before we're joined with our Savior.

We need not be married to another Mormon in LDS temples before eternal life can be "earned," according to former LDS prophet Spencer W. Kimball.

Let your theology be known and examined and let it be compared and contrasted with the words of God. Let your temple endowments be exposed to the light of day.

It is unjust, unholy and blasphemous of you to claim that only married Mormons will receive eternal life in the kingdom of God.

__________________

Why not just come here and say that in the first place, Russ? Why rebuke only a few LDS (who haven't been banned yet by (Golden "Mod8") at CARM when so many here need to see your light shine?

[Doctor Steuss]

...planets be known for the pagan powers and principalities which possess it.

Peter Piper picked...

[MormonMason]

Have LDS apostles and prophets stated that men become Gods over other planets? Yes.

Have they stated that they'll procreate spirit-children with at least one celestial wife? Yes.

Have they stated the spirit-children will take on a tabernacle of flesh and bone so that they too will become Gods over their own planets? Yes.

Do you disbelieve them?

If so, why should I believe you over them?

Well, then, by all means quote them and not not any of us. But, do make sure the quotes come from official sources, please. Personal opinions of anyone, even General Authorities, do not official LDS doctrine make. Of course, you already knew that.

[Bee Eff]

Have LDS apostles and prophets stated that men become Gods over other planets? Yes.

Have they stated that they'll procreate spirit-children with at least one celestial wife? Yes.

Have they stated the spirit-children will take on a tabernacle of flesh and bone so that they too will become Gods over their own planets? Yes.

Do you disbelieve them?

If so, why should I believe you over them?

Have you not read your scriptures? What have the prophets said concering this?

Ps. 82: 6

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

I am a god.

Genesis 1: 26-30

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