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The Parable Of The Prodigal Son

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Could you show a scripture reference that says all will be restored to you after you have sinned and then repented?

Alma 41:

3 And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good, that they should also, at the last day, be restored unto that which is good.

So we know we are rewarded for our works. Sins that have been forgiven are "remembered no more", therefore they cannot be counted against us as "bad works".

6 And so it is on the other hand. If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days, even so he shall be rewarded unto righteousness.

These things are told to Corianton after he had commited a grevious sin. Alma tells his son, Corianton;

14 Therefore, my son, see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously and do good continually; and if ye do all these things then shall ye recevie your reward; yea, ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again; and ye shall have good rewarded unto you again.

Hammer, this is the message of the Gospel. Those who don't understand this message of hope, are often I fear, those who fall away after succombing to temptation. They believe the lies Satan tells them--that their sins are too grave and they are not worth anything to God anymore. He just wants the perfect ones-the steadfast ones. This is probably one reason why such a small number who are excommunicated actually make it back to full fellowship. When members think like this and they fall into sin, it's no wonder they give up--turn their backs on the church and become embittered. The sad thing is that this isn't the true message of the gospel--it is heresies that have been promoted by some who've wanted to frighten members into being good.

Alma, having experienced the saving power of the atonement, understood it well. He knew that his son could be completely forgiven of his sins--just as he had been. Alma described himself after his own experience as "born of God". Alma bore this testimony to his son;

Alma 36:

28 And I know that he will raise me up at the last day, to dwell with him in Glory; yea, and I will praise him forever.

If you believe that those who committed grevious sin and repented can still never attain the same reward as the person who has remained faithful always, then you are relegating Alma the Younger to a lower kingdom, or a lesser reward than the many "one talent servants" among the church who, while they haven't committed grevious sins, have failed to do much else to serve their fellowman. I think that if you will read Alma 36, you'll see that Alma certainly did not believe he was not quite forgiven--that he was still under some sort of condemnation before God--that his sins would still rise up to haunt him through the eternities.

Sins for which we have been Forgiven cannot rob us of blessings in the eternities--otherwise, God is not being honest with us. He would have to remember the sins if he is going to use them to determine our eternal inheritance.

I also like this from Ezekiel 36:

25: Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of Flesh.

This is what the Atonement does for us--this is what Alma describes of his own experience with the saving power of the Atonement--"though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." (Isa 1:18)

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Alma 41:

3 And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good, that they should also, at the last day, be restored unto that which is good.

So we know we are rewarded for our works. Sins that have been forgiven are "remembered no more", therefore they cannot be counted against us as "bad works".

6 And so it is on the other hand. If he hath repented of his sins, and desired righteousness until the end of his days, even so he shall be rewarded unto righteousness.

This says exactly this: Good is rewarded. It doesn't give us a knowledge of whether or not Corianton will be in the Celestial kingdom as a servant or higher.

These things are told to Corianton after he had commited a grevious sin. Alma tells his son, Corianton;

14 Therefore, my son, see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously and do good continually; and if ye do all these things then shall ye recevie your reward; yea, ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again; and ye shall have good rewarded unto you again.

This merely states he will again have mercy, justice, and judgment restored to him again= Holy Ghost, Spirit of Christ. It doesn't say that he will be restored to where he was before with no scars.

Hammer, this is the message of the Gospel. Those who don't understand this message of hope, are often I fear, those who fall away after succombing to temptation. They believe the lies Satan tells them--that their sins are too grave and they are not worth anything to God anymore. He just wants the perfect ones-the steadfast ones. This is probably one reason why such a small number who are excommunicated actually make it back to full fellowship. When members think like this and they fall into sin, it's no wonder they give up--turn their backs on the church and become embittered. The sad thing is that this isn't the true message of the gospel--it is heresies that have been promoted by some who've wanted to frighten members into being good.

I completely disagree with you. People knowing the truth make better decisions than those who don't know the truth. Are we saying that the gospel message has to be sugar coated or it will be thrown out?

No where in all that I have written has it ever indicated that "THEY ARE NOT WORTH ANYTHING TO GOD ANYMORE. HE JUST WANTS THE PERFECT ONES. THE STEADFAST ONES.

Hasn't it been written that "there are many mansions and I go to prepare a place for YOU." How does this equate to what you have stated above? It is you that is making the exagerated and negative conotations here. Not me.

I don't believe it is the reason some who believe the TRUTH fall away. It is because they fall into the darkness and blindness of see where they no longer see the light. That is all.

What you claim is heresies, is your own fabricated statements that have nothing to do with anything I have written. I know of no members who have wanted to frighten members. I don't have a clue where you are getting all of this :P stuff.

Alma, having experienced the saving power of the atonement, understood it well. He knew that his son could be completely forgiven of his sins--just as he had been. Alma described himself after his own experience as "born of God". Alma bore this testimony to his son;

Sorry, but again where have I stated that one is not completely forgiven? You are reacting to your own mind set.

Alma 36:

28 And I know that he will raise me up at the last day, to dwell with him in Glory; yea, and I will praise him forever.

This is not speaking of HIS SON, but of himself. He was found corrupted by wicked leadership and when he had opportunity to hear the truth, he followed it. Yet it still doesn't tell us what he will be dwelling with Christ in Glory. Servant or higher?

If you believe that those who committed grevious sin and repented can still never attain the same reward as the person who has remained faithful always, then you are relegating Alma the Younger to a lower kingdom, or a lesser reward than the many "one talent servants" among the church who, while they haven't committed grevious sins, have failed to do much else to serve their fellowman. I think that if you will read Alma 36, you'll see that Alma certainly did not believe he was not quite forgiven--that he was still under some sort of condemnation before God--that his sins would still rise up to haunt him through the eternities.

I am sorry but I am not relegating anyone. Their actions, choices, and the Lord ultimately will do all the relegating.

What you are saying here is that if someone is not a grievious sinner, they are a sinner of omission. We are not talking about a 'faithful' steadfast person here are we? Now if we take a steadfast person such as Nephi

(Helaman 10:4 Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.

5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.

6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.

7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.

8 And thus, if ye shall say unto this temple it shall be rent in twain, it shall be done.

9 And if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou cast down and become smooth, it shall be done.

10 And behold, if ye shall say that God shall smite this people, it shall come to pass.

11 And now behold, I command you, that ye shall go and declare unto this people, that thus saith the Lord God, who is the Almighty: Except ye repent ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction. )

Then we are speaking about where someone could be if they are steadfast. Where as those who have sinned greatly, will never have such power here on earth and not be where this man is in the here after according to D&C 130:18-19.

Sins for which we have been Forgiven cannot rob us of blessings in the eternities--otherwise, God is not being honest with us. He would have to remember the sins if he is going to use them to determine our eternal inheritance.

Where has the Lord promised you the same reward as those who have been steadfast and faithful without failing? According to all the scritpures I have scowered this day, everything points to our works. My point has always been that those who have be stalwart always, have had more time and energy to be doing good works than those who took time to be greater sinners and needed more time to repent.

I also like this from Ezekiel 36:

25: Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of Flesh.

Is this talking about those who was covenanted and broke covenants? I believe this is speaking of the Jews who never believed in Christ. It is speaking about the latter day gathering of Israel.

This is what the Atonement does for us--this is what Alma describes of his own experience with the saving power of the Atonement--"though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." (Isa 1:18)

This is what the atonement does for those who have never received the gospel before they sinned. There is a great difference.

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This is not speaking of HIS SON, but of himself. He was found corrupted by wicked leadership and when he had opportunity to hear the truth, he followed it.

No, you are mixing the two up. This is Alma the Younger speaking-The one who went about willfully destroying the work of his Father--and committing serious sins by his own admission.

Yet it still doesn't tell us what he will be dwelling with Christ in Glory. Servant or higher?

:P

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This says exactly this: Good is rewarded. It doesn't give us a knowledge of whether or not Corianton will be in the Celestial kingdom as a servant or higher.

I completely disagree with you. People knowing the truth make better decisions than those who don't know the truth. Are we saying that the gospel message has to be sugar coated or it will be thrown out?

No where in all that I have written has it ever indicated that "THEY ARE NOT WORTH ANYTHING TO GOD ANYMORE. HE JUST WANTS THE PERFECT ONES. THE STEADFAST ONES.

Hasn't it been written that "there are many mansions and I go to prepare a place for YOU." How does this equate to what you have stated above? It is you that is making the exagerated and negative conotations here. Not me.

I don't believe it is the reason some who believe the TRUTH fall away. It is because they fall into the darkness and blindness of see where they no longer see the light. That is all.

What you claim is heresies, is your own fabricated statements that have nothing to do with anything I have written. I know of no members who have wanted to frighten members. I don't have a clue where you are getting all of this :P stuff.

Sorry, but again where have I stated that one is not completely forgiven? You are reacting to your own mind set.

This is not speaking of HIS SON, but of himself. He was found corrupted by wicked leadership and when he had opportunity to hear the truth, he followed it. Yet it still doesn't tell us what he will be dwelling with Christ in Glory. Servant or higher?

I am sorry but I am not relegating anyone. Their actions, choices, and the Lord ultimately will do all the relegating.

What you are saying here is that if someone is not a grievious sinner, they are a sinner of omission. We are not talking about a 'faithful' steadfast person here are we? Now if we take a steadfast person such as Nephi

(Helaman 10:4 Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.

5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.

6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.

7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.

8 And thus, if ye shall say unto this temple it shall be rent in twain, it shall be done.

9 And if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou cast down and become smooth, it shall be done.

10 And behold, if ye shall say that God shall smite this people, it shall come to pass.

11 And now behold, I command you, that ye shall go and declare unto this people, that thus saith the Lord God, who is the Almighty: Except ye repent ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction. )

Then we are speaking about where someone could be if they are steadfast. Where as those who have sinned greatly, will never have such power here on earth and not be where this man is in the here after according to D&C 130:18-19.

Where has the Lord promised you the same reward as those who have been steadfast and faithful without failing? According to all the scritpures I have scowered this day, everything points to our works. My point has always been that those who have be stalwart always, have had more time and energy to be doing good works than those who took time to be greater sinners and needed more time to repent.

This merely states he will again have mercy, justice, and judgment restored to him again= Holy Ghost, Spirit of Christ. It doesn't say that he will be restored to where he was before with no scars.

I'm sorry, but I'm not even sure what to say to you. You don't believe that the Atonement can heal us--without a scar (by the way, that's the name of a new book by Sister Dew and Sister Nelson which is about the atonement).

I just hope that you can continue to be steadfast and not make any serious errors along the way--so that you can feel confident of your inheritance in Heaven.

It takes an understanding of the Atonement to be able to make it work in your life.

Is this talking about those who was covenanted and broke covenants? I believe this is speaking of the Jews who never believed in Christ. It is speaking about the latter day gathering of Israel.

This is what the atonement does for those who have never received the gospel before they sinned. There is a great difference.

No, it's talking to the house of Israel who did believe in Christ and fell into apostacy and then would be gathered again. But it really doesn't matter. The message was one of hope to those who are humble enough to understand their need for redemption.

No, This is what the atonement does for those who have tasted of the fruits of true repentance.

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