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Bob Betts

Universal Apostasy Or Not?

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Good Morning,

Not that I speak for Bob, but he's been pretty busy back at the CC board. Just thought you'd like to know. Merry Christmas.

Tell him I double dog, er, uh, triple dog dare him to come back and stay like for a year or so while conversing with us for at least 15 minutes a day both morning and evening before and/or after his bed time.

... and please save the excuses for other people who are interested in hearing them.

If he can spare 30 minutes a day for conversing with God, he can spare 30 minutes a day talking with us.

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I'm truly sorry, that ultimately we are permanently divided over Joseph Smith.

In a thread originally devoted to a discussion of the reality of the universal apostasy, Bob finally brings us back on track with a sentiment that marked the beginnings of the apostasy in the Christian church--picking and choosing between God's messengers.

Bob now gets to graduate from Corinthian high school, where some upper-classmen chose Apollos over Paul, or Paul over Apollos, or either over Cephas, or any of them over Christ. (1 Cor. 1:12-13)

Nice work, Bob.

You have concluded your argument against the reality of the universal apostasy by invoking the arguments used to initiate the universal apostasy.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri (Italian for "He who must be ignored")

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... and please save the excuses for other people who are interested in hearing them.
Are you serious? I don't know you, so I'm not sure how you meant this.

Ninja,

How do keep finding those pictures? It takes me hours to find anything that I can fit on a page!

MRSR,

Thank you. I'll let him know.

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Ninja,

How do keep finding those pictures? It takes me hours to find anything that I can fit on a page!

Inspiration . . . :P

And since I can no longer post at Concerned Christians, just let me say that I am profoundly disappointed in Bob. GraceToAll ;) asked Bob if he would remove certain material from his site that quoted The Seer if it was shown that the First Presidency had repudiated it. Bob responded with a lengthy post that began with one fellow's criticism of The Seer, followed by multiple quotes of others praising Orson Pratt, quoting from The Seer, or simply acknowleding that Orson Pratt had published The Seer without commenting on its content. Bob said, "But, no mention of a repudiation in any of the following publications." Yet one of the publications Bob quoted was B.H. Roberts, Defense of the Faith and the Saints where Roberts quotes a segment from The Seer.

What Bob failed to quote was a statement by Roberts in that very same book, where he said,

The Seer, by formal action of the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles of the Church was repudiated, and Elder Orson Pratt himself sanctioned the repudiation. There was a long article published in the Deseret News on the 23rd of August, 1865, over the signatures of the First Presidency and Twelve setting forth that this work--the Seer--together with some other writings of Elder Pratt, were inaccurate. In the course of that document, after praising, as well they might, the great bulk of the work of this noted apostle, they say: "But the Seer, the Great First Cause, the article in the Millennial Star, of Oct. 15, and Nov. 1, 1850 contains doctrine which we cannot sanction and which we have felt to disown, so that the Saints who now live, and who may live hereafter, may not be misled by our silence, or be left to misinterpret it. Where these objectionable works or harts of works are bound in volumes, or otherwise, they should be cut out and destroyed."

B.H. Roberts, Defense of the Faith and the Saints, Vol.2, 294.

Was Bob unaware of this? NO! LDSNinja :crazy: had this same discussion with Bob last year and LDSNinja provided Bob with this exact same quote. You can find it here. It is, I believe the 12th post on the page, posted on Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:54 am.

Why would Bob pretend that the First Presidency never repudiated The Seer?

Perhaps you will be so kind as to respond to Bob's last post in the LDS, I'll make you a deal . . . thread by alerting the readers to the First Presidency's repudiation of The Seer, since GraceToAll :fool: can no longer post there.

P.S. Did Bob miss the memo about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer??? :)

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Inspiration . . . :P

And since I can no longer post at Concerned Christians, just let me say that I am profoundly disappointed in Bob. GraceToAll ;) asked Bob if he would remove certain material from his site that quoted The Seer if it was shown that the First Presidency had repudiated it. Bob responded with a lengthy post that began with one fellow's criticism of The Seer, followed by multiple quotes of others praising Orson Pratt, quoting from The Seer, or simply acknowleding that Orson Pratt had published The Seer without commenting on its content. Bob said, "But, no mention of a repudiation in any of the following publications." Yet one of the publications Bob quoted was B.H. Roberts, Defense of the Faith and the Saints where Roberts quotes a segment from The Seer.

What Bob failed to quote was a statement by Roberts in that very same book, where he said,

Was Bob unaware of this? NO! LDSNinja :crazy: had this same discussion with Bob last year and LDSNinja provided Bob with this exact same quote. You can find it here. It is, I believe the 12th post on the page, posted on Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:54 am.

Why would Bob pretend that the First Presidency never repudiated The Seer?

Perhaps you will be so kind as to respond to Bob's last post in the LDS, I'll make you a deal . . . thread by alerting the readers to the First Presidency's repudiation of The Seer, since GraceToAll :fool: can no longer post there.

P.S. Did Bob miss the memo about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer??? :)

If you feel strongly, email him at CC.

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If you feel strongly, email him at CC.

I did, and he replied with a not-very-nice tirade about how evil I am. What I can't figure out is, if he is a Christian, and Christ was sent to the sick rather than the healthy, and he's supposed to forgive his brother 70 times 7 times, why is he so venonmous towards me??? Oh well. I guess it's a big if . . . or maybe he's just decided I'm not one of the elect . . .

Merry Christmas.

ninja_christmas.jpg

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"After the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted the Apostles and Church members and killed many of them. With the death of the Apostles, priesthood keys and presiding priesthood authority were taken from the earth. The Apostles had kept the doctrines of the gospel pure and maintained the order and standard of worthiness for Church members. Without the Apostles, over time the doctrines were corrupted, and unauthorized changes were made in Church organization and priesthood ordinances, such as baptism and conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost."

The Preach My Gospel statement is either true or false.

Since John was an Apostle who never died, and was given the "power and the keys of this ministry," by Christ, then "presiding priesthood authority" was still on the earth. If the Nephites had the same directive from Christ, being granted the same request as John's, then four men maintained presiding priesthood authority.

John did not have the "presiding priesthood authority" nor did he have all of the "power and the keys", he only has the "power and the keys of [his] ministry."

In the LDS Church the 12 Apostles as a whole hold all the keys of the priesthood, but no one member of the Quorum of the 12 hold all the keys. If only one Apostle were left alive, he would not have the power or keys to preside in all functions of the priesthood. Thus John would not have been capable of what you seem to be claiming.

The 3 Nephites never held the same Authority and Keys of the priesthood as the Apostles. They should not be a consideration in this discussion, imo.

Now, finally, the Preach My Gospel quote does not state that all the "priesthood keys and presiding priesthood authority were taken from the earth" it states that "priesthood keys and presiding priesthood authority were taken from the earth." It does not even say the. Your initial assumption is blatently wrong using the quotations you have provided.

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I did, and he replied with a not-very-nice tirade about how evil I am. What I can't figure out is, if he is a Christian, and Christ was sent to the sick rather than the healthy, and he's supposed to forgive his brother 70 times 7 times, why is he so venonmous towards me??? Oh well. I guess it's a big if . . . or maybe he's just decided I'm not one of the elect . . .

Merry Christmas.

ninja_christmas.jpg

and he's supposed to forgive his brother 70 times 7 times

Are you sure you are a spiritual brother of Bob?

" ...Woe to you scribes and teachers of the Law...for you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, yet neglect the weightier things of the Law..."

"..You brood of vipers. Who told you to flee from the wrath of God?....bring forth fruits worthy of repentance..."

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