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Uncle Dale

What Is The World?

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hmmmmmm....

I was never taught this stuff. If there is a "plurality of worlds," then I suppose there must be some

sort of boundary markers between them?

I just mentioned the fact in this very thread, Uncle, come on, now. :P

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I do not know Greek or Hebrew and very little understanding (which I will put us all in danger :P by nevertheless sharing) of the Israelite point of view milieu.

On the other hand, 'world' is something of which I have pondered a great deal. Please permit me to offer the conclusions of those ponderings, and you can decide if they are of any use to anyone.

"before the world began." "the foundation of the world" the beginning of "the world;" or before the beginning of "the world."

What is "the world?"

The 'world' is a very rich concept. Obviously, in popular use, it's meaning is loose and we use it -- even in scripture and from General Authorities -- for a lot of different reasons.

Nevertheless, here is my belief: The 'world' does not refer to anything physical per say, such as a planet; the most that can be said is that the planet is the stage upon which the world unfolds.

The most reductive definition of 'world' is 'system'. With the spark of the Fall, the world begins. The 'world' is a computation of all the agents' choices/ combinations or covenants/ acts/ beliefs (and perhaps etc). To the degree that the Savior's atonement is not present in the world, it is -- worldly!, as we say -- a sum/ synergy of men and devils and nature. To the degree that the Savior's atonement is present in the world, then the world is becoming redeemed and eventually purified and sanctified and celestialized. What world are we -- the children of God -- creating on this third rock from the Sun?

Based on the language in the manuscripts, I'm not convinced anything approximating "world" was intended.

I would love to hear your elaboration on this.

Would "the world" include the bottoms of the seas? -- the tops of all the mountains? -- the moon? --

the firmament? -- the skies? -- the sun? -- the milky way? -- hell?

No, nothing physical, unless in popular use of the word.

Perhaps, because I know there has been speculation that these created items will be transformed into the Celestial Kingdom.

Our world -- my definition -- will be transformed into the celestial kingdom, yes. The physical parts of the local earth (and solar system?) will come along with that.

the redemption of the world

since the world began

the creation of the world

things which are pleasing unto the world

them which are not of the world

a large and spacious field, as if it had been a world

in other words, a Saviour of the world

this Redeemer of the world

the sins of the world

prepared from the foundation of the world

write concerning the end of the world

since the world began

from the creation of the world

he cometh into the world

I will punish the world

made the world as a wilderness

nor fill the face of the world

a light unto the world

This is a super cool list. Try saying or thinking these phrases while keeping in mind my definition of world as explained above.

And yet Mormons talk of progressing to godhood, in order to create worlds -- are worlds bad things?

???

UD

Where God was saying 'it was good' was a reference to his scientific and artistic efforts with this planet.

Worlds are whatever we make of them. This one we are currently participating in pretty much sucks. Course that is a glass-half empty description; obviously this world is also full of the miracles of the heart.

I already have been given a world to create. So have you Uncle Dale. It is the one in your 'hands' right now. This isn't a metaphor. This is actually how it works. Our heavenly Father gave us a world the moment we were born -- in fact, this is how we are as gods, as the conversation in 'Eden' went. We did not have a world 'before' now. This is it. In this sense, when we are talking about progressing as creators of worlds, beginning now and extending into eternity, we see that it is a matter of agency and influence. What radiates from the world of Uncle Dale? What radiates from the world of Maidservant? When I clean my home, landscape my yard, choose music, choose reading, choose friends, choose beliefs, choose service -- then the people near me enter my world. Is it a world that contains the light of Christ (or whatever phrase(s) best describe it) or the chains of the Adversary?

With our mortal probation, it is just that -- this is an internship. Heavenly Father and his Son are the source of any power we have to influence and create in this world (and they will be our source eternally, I'm sure). But as we contemplate an eternity -- I cannot fathom people who disagree with a 'godhood' progression in eternity, because I want to ask them -- what is it do you think you will be doing? If you think that what you will be doing in 'heaven' is a lot of harp playing, well then, you are still a creator -- you are creating a world of harp music. Forgive some of us if our world includes us creating a few more kids or trees or whatever heavenly superpowers are for. <_<

It is impossible to be a human being and not be a creator. The two cannot be separated. And in this we are the children of God/ gods. Now. Not later. The only difference is right now we are on probation and we're screwing up pretty good.

As far as creating a planet, I'm pretty sure all that takes is government funding. (Obviously that is facetious. I do believe creating physical items can, is and ought to be sacred events also.)

The earth, to Israelites, was their universe.

Without rebutting any of your other assessments made in the post, I am under the impression that the Egyptian religion (even without reference to Book of Abraham) was a pervasive religious and cultural influence for centuries, and even made its way to the worldviews of some nomadic semitic 'cattle' herders. Meaning that there was an idea of a greater universe.

They are a means to an end... A stepping stone to greater things. The temporal must be known for some of us to be refined into something that will make our Father proud.

What did that pesky Nephite opine? Something about opposition in all something-or-other... my reformed Egyptian is rusty.

Another way to say what I'm saying. Cool.

"plurality of worlds," then there must be some

sort of boundary markers between them?

And if Mormons anticipate "organizing worlds" and populating them with their own spirit children, then

would not those worlds also be "good," and not just a necessary task, required for greater exaltation?

You might want to think about this in terms of my definition. Meanwhile, I'm going to think about your 'boundary' comment in terms of my definition.

Happy seeking!

M

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...

Without rebutting any of your other assessments made in the post, I am under the impression

that the Egyptian religion (even without reference to Book of Abraham) was a pervasive religious

and cultural influence for centuries, and even made its way to the worldviews of some nomadic

semitic 'cattle' herders. Meaning that there was an idea of a greater universe.

The Egyptians had the idea of the heavens being a sort of other-world -- the starry sky was the body

of a great goddess -- the stars themselves were ascended and deified kings.

No doubt the Israelites were aware of Egyptian cosmology -- and yet those places in the Hebrew Bible

where "cosmos" was later inserted (in Greek translation) do not much resemble the Egyptian universe.

According to the BoM, the Nephites knew of a helio-centric solar system, and so the idea that other

planets being something like our own, would fit into that Copernican point of view. Whether or not

Mormons claim that Nephites had the BoA (or its information, or viewpoints) I do not know.

At any rate, the first 3/4s of the BoM looks to me like "New Testament" Greek thinking, when it comes

to speaking of the cosmos/world. It does not look Israelite or early Jewish to me.

Then again, for gospel dispensationalists, I suppose each professed dispensation is a sort of world

of its own, with Christianity and Greek cosmic views inherent in its "wisdom."

Seem to me that the time is ripe, for a new $39.99 glossy-covered book on the Deseret Books'

shelves, entitled: "What the World is --- According to God."

I'd buy a copy.

UD

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Great stuff, MS.

Great topic, Dale. I want to look more into the "concept of 'world.'"

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(Thanks, Life.)

Another thing I wanted to make clear -- if you look at, say, a verse like D & C 121:25 - 46, with my definition in mind -- kapow! it opens up a whole bit of clarity.

Espeically verse 36 "That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness."

What is this talking about? That you have to be male and a very, very good boy in order to help terraform Venus? No.

Which is more difficult 'power of heaven' to obtain -- the one where you snap your fingers and voila! Cambrian explosion?

Or the 'power of heaven' where those within your influence/ your children reach a potential of joy in a WORLD/system?

The latter, obvious to me, is more difficult and requires 'principles of righteousness to be handled'. In fact, Jesus Christ is having a bit of trouble with this WORLD. Even he, perfect Son of God without blemish, cannot influence all of us to joy (which he can't without the commitment/ covenant of our own agency -- because we are ALREADY gods) -- then, well, you see how this is going to be quite a journey for all of us to obtain the sort of influence the Redeemer has, either now or in eternity. Being 'perfectly holy' is our best chance of helping anyone else we love.

And, in fact, for those who are ready to receive this, this is the kernal in the Tower of Babel story. The Tower of Babel story is a very, very important story and its closest kin are these passages in D & C 121.

Here is the joy: it is not about oppression or pride or means or a kingdom of hierarchy: it is a kingdom of knowing every one by name and seeing them as they are: all powers of destruction puny in the face of our own holy power: endless creation: it is a WORLD we can have, because of the sacrifice our brother Jesus Christ made:

v 46 "The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever."

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MS

You have opened some very interesting doors of thought. Thanks.

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Seem to me that the time is ripe, for a new $39.99 glossy-covered book on the Deseret Books' shelves, entitled: "What the World is --- According to God."

I'd buy a copy.

UD

Yikes, that sounds like it might be the grandest scale speculation yet! Hopefully, it will have pictures.

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