Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

JohnBWalt

Christ Was A Man And Became A God?

Recommended Posts

Zakuska,

Jesus did not correct the statement "the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:"

Yes Christ didn't correct the statement. But that does not make it true. It was the scribes "private interpretation" of the verse. One in which he added to the word of God.

Jesus did not clarify that Jew's statement by saying there are "three Gods" like Joseph Smith taught.

See above.

Later the Apostle Paul confirms the Jew's words, Paul says "there is none other God but one" (1Cor 8:4).

The Apostle Paul says something about this he says,

1Cor.8

[4] As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

There are NOT two Gods like the Mormon Church teaches. Like I said earlier Jesus is the Son of God. The Apostle Paul clarifies this for us, he says "one God, the Father ... one Lord Jesus Christ".

1Cor.8

[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Again the Apostle Paul clarifies this for us, he says,

1Cor.8

[5] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

Even Satan is "called gods" (2Cor 4:4) ...

2Cor.4

[4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Very good Johnny. There are many creatures both in heaven and on earth who are called "gods". God him self even calls these creatures... "gods" and the scripture can't be broken. Which means... that while yes there is only one "High God" there are as many little gods as there are sands of the sea.

If there truly is only one God as you claim then this scripture is broken.

John 10

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Share this post


Link to post

LifeOnaPlate,

See, johnny, I thought we were talking about God, not about personages, or beings. If you're going to quote Pres. Smith on the subject let's do the thing proper, aye?

Sounds like "three Gods" ... from his quote Joseph Smith says three distinct personages and three Gods ...

Hrmmm. I wonder what else he said in that discourse. Luckily we have the whole of it online at the BOAP. Mark it, Elder Rigdon!

Sounds like "three Gods" ... the official Mormon Magazine Ensign says "three seperate Gods" ...

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

Ensign, Nov 1984 - What is in error, then, when we use the term Godhood to describe the ultimate destiny of mankind? We may now be young in our progressionâ??juvenile, even infantile, compared with Him. Nevertheless, in the eternities to come, if we are worthy, we may be like unto Him, enter His presence, â??see as [we] are seen, and know as [we] are known,â? and receive a â??fulness.â? (D&C 76:94.) This doctrine is not at variance with the scriptures. Nevertheless, it is easy to understand why some Christians reject it, because it introduces the possibility that man may achieve Godhood. Their concern centers on certain verses of scripture, for there are many references (at least twenty in the Bible alone) which speak of one God. For example, Eph. 4:6: There is â??one God and Father of all.â? There are many other verses of scripture, at least an equal number in the Bible, that speak in plural terms of â??lordsâ? and â??gods.â? The strongest one was given by Christ Himself when He quoted that very clear verse from the Eighty-second Psalm: â??Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [see Ps. 82:6.] The acceptance of this truth does not mean accepting the multiple gods of mythology nor the polytheism of the pagans, which was so roundly condemned by Isaiah and the other prophets. Anyone who believes and teaches of God the Father, and accepts the divinity of Christ, and of the Holy Ghost, teaches a plurality of Gods. When the early Apostles were gone, those who assumed the leadership of the Church forsook revelation and relied on reason. The idea of three separate Gods offended them, for it appeared to contravene those scriptures which refer to one God. To reconcile that problem, they took verses here and there and ignored all else that bears on the subject. They tried to stir the three ones together into some mysterious kind of a composite one. They came up with creeds which cannot be squared with the scriptures. And they were left with a philosophy which opposes all we know of creation, of the laws of nature. And that, interestingly enough, defies the very reason upon which they came to depend. The Apostle Paul understood this doctrine and wrote to the Philippians: â??Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: â??Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.â? (Philip. 2:5â??6.) Lorenzo Snow, a modern Apostle, wrote a poem to his ancient counterpart Paul, from which I quote only one verse: A Son of God, like God to be, Would not be robbing Deity, And he who has this hope within, Will purify himself from sin. (Improvement Era, June 1919, p. 661.) The Father is the one true God. This thing is certain: no one will ever ascend above Him; no one will ever replace Him. Nor will anything ever change the relationship that we, His literal offspring, have with Him. He is Eloheim, the Father. He is God. Of Him there is only one. We revere our Father and our God; we worship Him. There is only one Christ, one Redeemer. We accept the divinity of the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. We accept the promise that we may become joint heirs with Him. Paul wrote to the Romans: â??The spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: â??And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christâ? (Rom. 8:16â??17.) There are those who mock our beliefs in the most uncharitable ways. And we will bear what they do with long-suffering, for it does not change truth. And in their own way they move our work along a little faster. We will send our missionaries abroad to teach that we are the literal sons and daughters of God.

And again:

Sounds like "three Gods" ... the Mormon Bible Dictionary speaks of God(Elohim) ... and ... a God(Jehovah) ...

God - When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are his children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as LORD (in capital letters), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God. Jesus works under the direction of the Father and is in complete harmony with him. All mankind are his brethren and sisters, he being the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim. Many of the things that the scripture says were done were actually done by the LORD (Jesus). Thus the scripture says that â??God created the heaven and the earthâ? (Gen. 1: 1), but we know that it was actually the LORD (Jesus) who was the creator (John 1: 3, 10), or as Paul said, God created all things by Christ Jesus (Eph. 3: 9). The Holy Ghost is also a God and is variously called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, the Spirit of God, etc. ... The Father and the Son personally visited Joseph Smith in the Sacred Grove, in the spring of 1820, near Manchester, New York, in the opening of the dispensation of the fulness of times (JS-H 1: 11-20).

And again:

Sounds like "three Gods" ... the Mormon Guide to scriptures speaks of God the Father(Elohim) ... and ... God the Son (Jehovah) ... and ... that God the Holy Ghost is also a God

Godhead - There are three separate persons in the Godhead: God, the Eternal Father; his Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost. We believe in each of them (A of F 1: 1). From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, without flesh and bone (D&C 130: 22-23). These three persons are one in perfect unity and harmony of purpose and doctrine (John 17: 21-23). God the Father: It is generally the Father, or Elohim, who is referred to by the title God. He appeared to Stephen (Acts 7: 55-56) and Joseph Smith (JS-H 1: 17). Later he appeared to both Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon (D&C 76: 20, 23). God the Son: The God known as Jehovah is the Son, All mankind are his brothers and sisters, for he is the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim. Some scripture references refer to him by the word God. For example, the scripture says that â??God created the heaven and the earthâ? (Gen. 1: 1), but it was actually Jesus who was the Creator under the direction of God the Father (John 1: 1-3, 10, 14; Heb. 1: 1-2). Abinadi explained how Christ is the Father and the Son, Mosiah 15: 1-4 (Ether 3: 14). God the Holy Ghost: The Holy Ghost is also a God and is called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, and the Spirit of God, among other similar names and titles.

In short, three distinct beings can be one God.

Sounds like "three Gods" ... the Ensign says "three seperate and distinct beings"

Ensign, Jan 2006 - â??In common with the rest of Christianity,â? Elder Oaks continued, â??we believe in a Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. However, we testify that these three members of the Godhead are three separate and distinct beings. We also testify that God the Father is not just a spirit but is a glorified person with a tangible body, as is his resurrected Son, Jesus Christ. â?¦ In contrast, many Christians reject the idea of a tangible, personal God and a Godhead of three separate beings. They believe that God is a spirit and that the Godhead is only one God. In our view, these concepts are evidence of the falling away we call the Great Apostasy.â? Not long after the deaths of the Saviorâ??s New Testament Apostles, ideas from Greek philosophy began transforming plain and precious gospel truths. Conflicting doctrines regarding the nature of deity led Emperor Constantine to convene a churchwide council in Nicaea in a.d. 325. The resulting Nicene Creed eliminated the concept of deity as separate beings by declaring Jesus Christ to be â??one substance with the Father.â?

Share this post


Link to post

Zakuska,

If there truly is only one God as you claim then this scripture is broken.

How can it be broken ... John 10:34,35 is speaking of those "called gods ... gods many" (1Cor 8:5).

Share this post


Link to post

I know all the arguments, johnny. It's really quite basic. You believe that Christ prayed to Himself, I believe Christ prayed to His Father. You seem to not understand the concept of being one as "unity." That's fine, and you're welcome to the interpretation. I disagree.

Share this post


Link to post

LifeOnaPlate,

I know all the arguments, johnny. It's really quite basic.

It is quite basic, Mormonism teaches "three Gods".

You believe that Christ prayed to Himself, I believe Christ prayed to His Father.

How silly to think I "believe that Christ prayed to Himself". The Father and the Son are distint, I believe Christ prayed to His Father.

What I DO NOT believe is that the Father is a seperate and distinct God like the Mormon Church teaches.

Elohim and Jehovah are NOT seperate Gods like the Mormon Church teaches.

You seem to not understand the concept of being one as "unity."

I understand the concept of being one as "unity" ... what I don't understand is how person can believe in "three Gods" like Joseph Smith taught when neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament reveal "three Gods".

Share this post


Link to post

Its simple.... Christ was a God who became a man and then became a God once again. He isnt speaking about the whole process... just the last leg. Its all relative to where you start in the cycle.

Yeah, there's nothing like relative theology to explain the person of Jesus. It's just too bad that it is also faulty theology that does nothing but blaspheme the person of Jesus and who he has always been.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Share this post


Link to post

Zakuska writes

Care to explain why you are taking your doctrinal exposition from a scribe of the Jews? Especially since this scribe adds words to the Scripture?!

Deut 6

4 Hear, O Israel: The [YHWH] our God is one Lord:

5 And thou shalt love the [YHWH] thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

It says nothing about there being only one God. There is only one Lord, we already Know that.

Especially since Christ admited there was a God above him

Hick reckons--

Deut 6 is a â??One Jehovahâ? pronouncement. There is only one Jehovah. Having only one Jehovah has many implications.

For example: Jehovah is identified as the â??Most High Godâ? in Genesis.

Genesis 14:22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,

(LORD Gen 14:22 is Strongs #3068 â??Jehovahâ? meaning Jehovah is identified in the text as the â??Most High Godâ??

Another example: This Jehovah-being created the universe 'alone' by "myself" yet is called "Us".

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Nehemiah 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Psalm 33: 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

( The word [who is the Son] is the breath of Jehovah's mouth-)

This Jehovah-being is a pluralistic beingâ??That is; the â??Myselfâ? of Isaiah is in Genesis â??Usâ?.

Let Us in Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion ( The word ---the Son/Christ says, 'Let us...')

this statement says the same thing in a different way--

John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jehovah is the only True Elohim

"And Moses said unto God (elohim), Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God (elohim) of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say unto them?...And God (elohim) said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD (jehovah) God (elohim) of your fathers, the God (elohim) of Abraham, the God (elohim) of Isaac, and the God (elohim) of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations (Ex. 3:13,15)."

"And God (elohim) spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD

(jehovah): And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God (el) Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them (Ex. 6:2-3)."

"Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD (jehovah) he is God (elohim); there is none else beside (except) him...Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD (jehovah) he is God (elohim) in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else (Deut. 4:35,39)."

"That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD (jehovah) is God (elohim), and that there is none else (1 Kings 8:60)."

"Know ye that the LORD (jehovah) he is God (elohim): it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture (Psa. 100:3)."

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government

shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful,

Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (Is. 9:6)."

"I am the LORD (jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images (Is. 42:8)."

"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (jehovah), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God (el - God, the one true God, Jehovah) formed, neither shall there be after me (Isa. 43:10)."

"Thus saith the LORD (jehovah) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (jehovah) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God (elohim). Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God (elowahh - God) beside (except) me? yea, there is no God (Tsuwr - Rock); I know not any (Isa. 44:6,8)."

"I am the LORD (jehovah), and there is none else, there is no God (elohim) beside (except) me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (Is. 45:5)."

Zakuska writes

John 20

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet bascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

...as well as many others below.

John 10

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Hick rekons

Jesus as a distinct Person looks to another Person â??The Fatherâ??, as His God. Jesus is a different person than The Father. Yet Jesus is of the same being as the Father. Jesus is of Jehovah, and the Father is of Jehovah too. Jehovah is called the Most High God, and is exclusively worshiped in Heaven.

Zakuska writes

There are many creatures both in heaven and on earth who are called "gods". God him self even calls these creatures... "gods" and the scripture can't be broken. Which means... that while yes there is only one "High God" there are as many little gods as there are sands of the sea.

If there truly is only one God as you claim then this scripture is broken.

Hick rekons--

There are many creatures called â??godsâ??- but the True God is a non-creature, he is an eternal uncreated being.

Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place,â?¦

The New Testament tells us that the three person of the Godhead have always eternally been in the power of the Godhead eternally. Roman 1:20 (as cited above in previous post) the Greek word αιδοιος (aidoios) is used for 'eternal' (which indicates the strictly eternal nature of the Godhead).

Share this post


Link to post

Mola Ram Suda Ram,

The thought that the Father is distinct from the Son is straight from the Christian Creeds.

This is interesting lets se if we can see the double talk exposed here.

in another quaote Johnny said,

LifeOnaPlate,

It is quite basic, Mormonism teaches "three Gods".

How silly to think I "believe that Christ prayed to Himself". The Father and the Son are distint, I believe Christ prayed to His Father.

What I DO NOT believe is that the Father is a seperate and distinct God like the Mormon Church teaches.

Elohim and Jehovah are NOT seperate Gods like the Mormon Church teaches.

I understand the concept of being one as "unity" ... what I don't understand is how person can believe in "three Gods" like Joseph Smith taught when neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament reveal "three Gods".

So Johnny are they distinct and separet or are they not? And dont go say that you didnt say exactly that they are distinct and separate. Distinct and separate go hand in hand here.

Share this post


Link to post

Shaf alert, Shaf alert. We have a Shaf sighting. I believe he should be on Larry King. That would be great.

Share this post


Link to post

Zakuska,

How can it be broken ... John 10:34,35 is speaking of those "called gods ... gods many" (1Cor 8:5).

Very correct... but now you are saying there are many gods. Not one.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth Johnny.

Share this post


Link to post

Mola Ram Suda Ram,

So Johnny are they distinct and separet or are they not? And dont go say that you didnt say exactly that they are distinct and separate. Distinct and separate go hand in hand here.

The Father and the Son are distinct persons. Distinct and seperate DO NOT necessarily go hand in hand. The Father dwelt in the Son, the Father and the Son are seperate but not necessarily distinct.

Share this post


Link to post

Zakuska,

Very correct... but now you are saying there are many gods. Not one.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth Johnny.

I am consistent with the apostle Paul, he says:

1Cor.8

[4] As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

[5] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Share this post


Link to post

Mola Ram Suda Ram,

The Father and the Son are distinct persons. Distinct and seperate DO NOT necessarily go hand in hand. The Father dwelt in the Son, the Father and the Son are seperate but not necessarily distinct.

If the Holy Spirit can dwell in us, that would make us distinct but not seperate, thus we would also be God.

Share this post


Link to post

Mola Ram Suda Ram,

The Father and the Son are distinct persons. Distinct and seperate DO NOT necessarily go hand in hand. The Father dwelt in the Son, the Father and the Son are seperate but not necessarily distinct.

who could have guessed you were going to say that. HA Im really confused now. One more question. can some one point me to were the scriptures teach that the HG is the same as the Father?

If the Holy Spirit can dwell in us, that would make us distinct but not seperate, thus we would also be God.

I see this is so, tha means then since the HG dwells in me I must be God. :P

Share this post


Link to post

So hick... what do we do when the Bible declares that there are Two Jehovahs, Instead of one like you assert?

http://www.cbcg.org/2jehovahs_psa_intro.htm

Psalm 90, as originally inspired and written, reveals that the divine Being of Moses’ prayer is named Jehovah Elohim. The apostle Peter reveals that this Jehovah Elohim of Psalm 90 became Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah and Son. As we have seen in Psalm 89, the Father of the Messiah was also known as Jehovah Elohim. When correctly understood, Psalm 89 and Psalm 90 reveal the existence of two Jehovah Elohim!

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, there's nothing like relative theology to explain the person of Jesus. It's just too bad that it is also faulty theology that does nothing but blaspheme the person of Jesus and who he has always been.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If jesus where "Set in Cement"... Then this verse makes no sense.

Heb. 5: 9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

There was something different (ie. "NOT the Same") between the Mortal Christ who died on the Cross and the Immortal Christ who left the Tomb.

Share this post


Link to post

Yet Christ claimed he was the Son of God not God himself.

Yet, the expression "Son of God" is a direct allusion to the deity of Jesus.

In the New Testament revelation and later in Christian theology, "Son of God" came to have a higher significance; Jesus is the Son of God because he is God and partakes of the divine nature. The purpose of the Gospel of John is to demonstrate that Jesus is both the Christ and the Son of God, and it is clear from the prologue of John that Jesu as the Son of God, the Logos, was personally pre-existent, was himself God, and became incarnate for the purpose of revealing God to human beings.â??George Eldon Ladd, A Theology of the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974), 160.
Though the title "Son of God" can sometimes be used simply to refer to Israel (Matt. 2:15), or to man as created by God (Luke 2:38), or to redeemed man generally (Rom. 8:14, 19, 23), there are nevertheless instances in which teh phrase "Son of God" refers to Jesus as the heavenly, eternal Son who is equal to God himself (see Matt. 11:25-30; 17:5; 1 Cor. 15:28; Heb. 1:1-3, 5, :P. This is especially true in John's gospel where Jesus is seen as a unique Son from the Father (John 1:14, 18, 34, 49) who fully reveals the Father (John 8:19; 14:9). As Son he is so great that we can trust in him for eternal life (something that could be said of no created being: John 3:16, 36; 20:31). He is also the one who has all authority from the Father to give life; pronounce eternal judgment, and rule over all (John 3:36; 5:20-22, 25; 10:17; 16:15). As Son he has been sent by the Father, and therefore he existed before he came into the world (John 3:37; 5:23; 10:36).â??Wayne Grudem, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1994), 547.
The name "Son" as applied to the second person. The second person in the Trinity is called "Son" or "Son of God" in more than one sense of the word. (1) <In a metaphysical sense.> This must be maintained over against Socinians or Unitarians, who reject the idea of a tri-personal Godhead, see in Jesus a mere man, and regard the name "Son of God" as applied to Him primarily as an honorary title conferred upon Him. It is quite evident that Jesus Christ is represented as the Son of God in Scripture, irrespective of His position and work as Mediator. (a) He is spoken of as the Son of God from a pre-incarnation standpoint, for instance in John 1:14, 18; Gal. 4:4. (cool.gif He is called "only-begotten" Son of God or of the Father, a term that would not apply to Him, if He were the Son of God only in an official or in an ethical sense, John 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9. Compare II Sam. 7:14; Job 2:1; Ps. 2:7; Luke 3:38; John 1:12. © In some passages it is abundantly evident from the context that the name is indicative of the deity of Christ, John 5:18-25; Heb. 1. (d) While Jesus teaches his disciples to speak of God, and to address Him as "our Father," He Himself speaks of Him, and addresses Him, simply as "Father" or "my Father," and thereby shows that He was conscious of a unique relationship to the Father, Matt. 6:9; 7:21; John 20:17. (e) According to Matt. 11:27, Jesus as the Son of God claims a unique knowledge of God, a knowledge such as no one else can possess. (f) The Jews certainly understood Jesus to claim that He was the Son of God in a metaphysical sense, for they regarded the manner in which He spoke of Himself as the Son of God as blasphemy, Matt. 26:63; John 5:18; 10:36.â??Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1941), 91-92.

No it not Johhny... because even the ressurected Christ maintained that God was other than himself.

John 20: 17

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Distinction in person does not mean that Jesus was anything less that God, though.

Share this post


Link to post

LifeOnaPlate,

If the Holy Spirit can dwell in us, that would make us distinct but not seperate, thus we would also be God.

Scripture says those joined unto the Lord are distinct "members and "one spirit" (1Cor 6:15-17)

1Cor 6

[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Share this post


Link to post

Zakuska,

I am consistent with the apostle Paul, he says:

1Cor.8

[4] As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

[5] For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

[6] But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Johnny I really enjoy your posts. Im some what confused though, why you would post things that clearly spell out the existence of more thatn one god. That is what we believe.

Share this post


Link to post

Paul D,

Yet, the expression "Son of God" is a direct allusion to the deity of Jesus.

So why do you deny it to humans then?

Luke 3: 38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

1 John 3

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

John is teaching the deification of man here.

Share this post


Link to post

In fact Paul even calls the ressurected Christ... a Man. In your own pet proof text...

1 Tim. 2: 5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

PS God being manifest in the flesh doesn't mean that Chirst was God himself.

Weakness is also "manifest" in the flesh but that doesn't make the man a species of weakness. Nor does sin being "manifest" in the flesh make a man a species of sin.

And once again, even though Jesus was a man, he was also God incarnate.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Romans 9:5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. (Notice here that Paul explicitly calls Jesus God).

Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; (Notice here that Paul explicitly calls Jesus God).

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Share this post


Link to post

LifeOnaPlate,

Scripture says those joined unto the Lord are distinct "members and "one spirit" (1Cor 6:15-17)

1Cor 6

[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

How do you interpret John 17? I agree that we will be of one spirit but that still is one in purpose. If we take John 17 at face value then it say that we will be one with Jesus and the Father. Are to become literally one but still distinct,but not separate. Just a big floating mass of stuff.

Share this post


Link to post

Yet according to Paul he still had a "Man Nature".

So what? Of course he had a human nature. He was God incarnate in the flesh.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

Philippians 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Share this post


Link to post

Mola Ram Suda Ram,

who could have guessed you were going to say that. HA Im really confused now. One more question. can some one point me to were the scriptures teach that the HG is the same as the Father?

The HG is a distinct person from the Father.

I see this is so, tha means then since the HG dwells in me I must be God.

This is what the Catholic Church teaches (see link below):

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a3p1.htm#I

460 - The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": [2 Pt 1:4] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." [st. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 19, 1: PG 7/1, 939] "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." [st. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B] "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." [st. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4]

Johnny I really enjoy your posts. Im some what confused though, why you would post things that clearly spell out the existence of more thatn one god. That is what we believe.

Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the HG are "three Gods" ... I don't believe this because this is not what the Bible reveals. I believe in "one God in three persons" (2Cor 5:19).

2Cor 5

[19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...