Jacob At Penuel

[Ron Beron]

Recently there have been a number of post on the Face to face thread that left me some questions as to the veracity of the story contained in Genesis about Jacobs meeting with "God/angel". Something about it seemed both familiar yet distant. The story begins in Genesis 32

24

[Zakuska]

Wasn't Joseph Smith a Champion Wrasler?!

[Ron Beron]

Wasn't Joseph Smith a Champion Wrasler?!

I think Jacob could've taken him.

[structurecop]

Great post, Ron.

Tsuzuki actually turned me on to this passage as relating to invocative magick, as you mentioned here:

Now, why the name? The creature refuses to give it's name. In the ancient world a name can be a powerful tool, or even one of a destructive nature. It could heal or destroy. Many blessing or prayers in the scriptures or, in fact, invocative magic. One reason we close our prayers in Jesus' name is invoke his authority.

Kamenraider on another thread posted an excerpt of Heber C. Kimball's diary where he dons specific clothing, makes the signs of the priesthood, and "called one [on] the name of the Lord. He hurd me fore my heart was mad[e] comfortable. I inquired by the rod." Occultists will recognize the practice of calling the name of the Lord (YHWH, or one of its variations) as part of evocation or banishing ceremonies.

Another interesting example would be the medieval grimoire The Lesser Key of Solomon where the names of the various sub-deities (demons) Solomon used in the amassing of his wealth and building the Temple are listed with their sigils for the magus to call upon.

[Ron Beron]

Great post, Ron.

Tsuzuki actually turned me on to this passage as relating to invocative magick, as you mentioned here:

Kamenraider on another thread posted an excerpt of Heber C. Kimball's diary where he dons specific clothing, makes the signs of the priesthood, and "called one [on] the name of the Lord. He hurd me fore my heart was mad[e] comfortable. I inquired by the rod." Occultists will recognize the practice of calling the name of the Lord (YHWH, or one of its variations) as part of evocation or banishing ceremonies.

Another interesting example would be the medieval grimoire The Lesser Key of Solomon where the names of the various sub-deities (demons) Solomon used in the amassing of his wealth and building the Temple are listed with their sigils for the magus to call upon.

There was a great Amazing Stories episode a few years back with a professor reading from a book such as you mention above. While the professor is calling on all these names thunder fills the classroom and lighting lights the sky. After several tumultuous moments the noise and shaking stops. The camera focuses on the students looking aghast and shocked. The camera then turns to the professor whose visage has changed to one of dripping sores and pustules asking, "What?"

Be careful what you ask for.

[Ron Beron]

bump

[firepatch36]

According to Hugh Nibley:

One of the most puzzling episodes in the Bible has always been the story of Jacobâ??s wrestling with the Lord. When one considers that the word conventionally translated by â??wrestledâ?? (yeaveq) can just as well mean â??embrace,â? and that it was in this ritual embrace that Jacob received a new name and the bestowal of priestly and kingly power at sunrise (Genesis 32:24ff), the parallel to the Egyptian coronation embrace becomes at once apparent.

(From The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri: An Egyptian Endowment, quoted in The Gate of Heaven page 43 by Matthew Brown)

Matthew Brown added:

Another scholar notes that the word translated in the story as â??wrestledâ? is a by-form of the word found in Genesis 29:13, 33:4, and 48:10 that means â??to embraceâ? (Gordon J. Wenham, Genesis 16-50 [Dallas, Texas: Word Books, 1994])

[JohnG3711]

IMHP...This wrestling was not a physical one...rather it was a spiritual one...they wrestled with the gospel...a teaching match.

JMG

[ERMD]

IMHP...This wrestling was not a physical one...rather it was a spiritual one...they wrestled with the gospel...a teaching match.

JMG

Then how did he dislocate his hip?

[kamenraider]

This is interesting:

Link

[structurecop]

This is interesting:

Link

Great article. Jepson makes a great point about our tendency to spiritualize struggles instead of recognize that everything is a physical struggle with a spiritual element.

[Ron Beron]

Then how did he dislocate his hip?

From what I read it wasn't a dislocation, but a pinching of the sciatic nerve which the Jews even today refuse to eat. And from personal experience is one painful injury.

[Ron Beron]

Great article. Jepson makes a great point about our tendency to spiritualize struggles instead of recognize that everything is a physical struggle with a spiritual element.

I kinda liked the Jungian perspective on this which states that Jacob was actually fighting the darkest side of his character ridding himself of childish aspirations and desires and instead preparing to take on his greatest fear; his brother. Reminds me of Luke Skywalker battling himself as Darth Vader in Star Wars.

[structurecop]

I kinda liked the Jungian perspective on this which states that Jacob was actually fighting the darkest side of his character ridding himself of childish aspirations and desires and instead preparing to take on his greatest fear; his brother. Reminds me of Luke Skywalker battling himself as Darth Vader in Star Wars.

Indeed. The most fearsome task for the developing shaman is to face his shadow -- the doppelganger self composed of all his unresolved issues -- before he can continue to grow spiritually.