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How Can We Know When We Hear

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LDS and non-LDS alike use the scripture to warn against 'doctrines of demons' being taught and believed.

How do you determine if what someone says or does is a 'doctrine of demons'?

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"And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."

- Moro. 10:4-5

"Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;

And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom;"

- D&C 91:4-5

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I have never found upon examination that anybody's taught doctrine is perfect. So I would not use as a standard that the person must be above doctrinal error or he is a demon doctrine teacher. I find people can mix false with true doctrine.

You should test what persons are teaching via scripture. One should excercise much kind caution in passing judgement upon others religious leaders. One still has to openly doubt certain religious leaders, or teachings you doubt God has anything to do with inspiring. But I would not say all experiences with the Holy Spirit that members of multiple faiths have is all false.

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LDS and non-LDS alike use the scripture to warn against 'doctrines of demons' being taught and believed.

How do you determine if what someone says or does is a 'doctrine of demons'?

It would help to see the demons preaching it. Otherwise, I am inclined to think that something that doesn't ring true is just a product of the infinity of human errors to be found in this world. The idea that something is a doctrine of demons is highly dangerous because it replaces reason with fear. Instead of analyzing each doctrine independently to see whether it comports with common sense and reason, we get caught up in worrying about the source of the doctrine. For that reason, I choose to completely discard the concern that a particular doctrine might have stemmed from a demon. I imagine there are likely some demons in the universe who actually have a good idea. Why should I discredit it just because it came from a demon?

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LDS and non-LDS alike use the scripture to warn against 'doctrines of demons' being taught and believed.

How do you determine if what someone says or does is a 'doctrine of demons'?

Well if I am a Christian, I just look at everything about the LDS church and state that they are the best example of teaching doctrines of demons.

If I am LDS, I test the spirits,, and I look at the fruits of the Spirit. I believe Christ:

Matt. 7: 16

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

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Why should I discredit it just because it came from a demon?

I agree. Shouldn't we all accept truth from whomever and wherever it comes from?

And btw, I only rely on the scriptures when I know God inspired them, so my source of truth is not the scriptures.

The only way that I know how to know what is true is from God... through Jesus Christ, the Mediator.

Jesus Christ is the way to know truth... He is the Way, and the Truth.

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Doctrine of devils isn't always false... the demon-possessed people in the Gospels identified Jesus as the Christ.

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Doctrine of devils isn't always false... the demon-possessed people in the Gospels identified Jesus as the Christ.

That's right. And the devils in Hell also know the truth of "Mormonism." Well, at least according to Brigham:

The devils and damned spirits in hell cannot deny the truth of "Mormonism" and speak the truth. I wish all those who profess to believe it did as much as the devils in hell do.

BTW, another fantastic quote from the same sermon:

"Mormonism" embraces all truth that is revealed and that is unrevealed, whether religious, political, scientific, or philosophical.

More from Pres. Young (from a different sermon):

If you can find a truth, in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine.

And even more from Brother Brigham (yet another sermon):

Were you to ask me how it was that I embraced "Mormonism," I should answer, for the simple reason that it embraces all truth in heaven and on earth, in the earth, under the earth, and in hell, if there be any truth there.

Edit:

Forgot to include references. The first two are from JoD Vol 9 "ETERNAL PUNISHMENT-"MORMONISM," &c." given on January 12, 1862

The third is from JoD Vol 13 "TRUTH AND ERROR" given on APRIL 24, 1870

Last from JoD Vol 11 "HOLY GHOST REQUISITE TO TEACH THE TRUTH" given April 29, 1866

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If you can find a truth, in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine.

Try telling that to people who are outside our religion.

Oh, you did. Didn't you. And so did Brigham.

I hope we've helped clear that point up. :P

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Well if I am a Christian, I just look at everything about the LDS church and state that they are the best example of teaching doctrines of demons.

If I am LDS, I test the spirits,, and I look at the fruits of the Spirit. I believe Christ:

Matt. 7: 16

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Could you give a reference for your statement by Christians that "they [the LDS Church] are the best example of teaching doctrines of demons"? Then could you support that any Christian will state this?

If you test the spirits, look at the fruits of the Spirit, and believe Christ, then you are relying on your ability to spiritually discern. It seems to me you are relying on yourself only. Is your discernment infallible?

Proverbs 16:25a - "There is a way that seems right to a man . . ."

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LDS and non-LDS alike use the scripture to warn against 'doctrines of demons' being taught and believed.

How do you determine if what someone says or does is a 'doctrine of demons'?

Easy. There's no such thing as demons.

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Only the Holy Spirit can reveal truth in its fullness, anything else can be perverted.

Be still and know.

Seek and find

Knock and the door will open.

It takes perseverance and desire to know the truth. Anything worth having takes individual effort.

Others efforts can be helpful, but trusting in them is trusting in the arm of flesh, which can make one cursed.

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Easy. There's no such thing as demons.

Quit being so rational.

How about demons speak in slow soothing tones? Wait, that wouldn't help you distinguish between the two, would it?

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There's no such thing as demons.

The step before denying God is to deny the devil exists.

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Easy. There's no such thing as demons.

don't tell the demons, they don't like to be ignored.

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1. Could you give a reference for your statement by Christians that "they [the LDS Church] are the best example of teaching doctrines of demons"? Then could you support that any Christian will state this?

2, If you test the spirits, look at the fruits of the Spirit, and believe Christ, then you are relying on your ability to spiritually discern. It seems to me you are relying on yourself only. Is your discernment infallible?

Proverbs 16:25a - "There is a way that seems right to a man . . ."

1. You are the one who gave me this information. Should I quote from your pm to me?

2. Again, would you like me to quote from my pm to you?

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The step before denying God is to deny the devil exists.

No problemo! :P

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As mentioned in my first post, LDS and non-LDS use the same verse in speaking of the other. I'm just asking some ways we can use to tell if a doctrine is of the devil/demons or if the doctrine is of God.

For me, Jesus said if we do what He said that we will know if it is of God or not. I can see a number of places from scripture that a common demonic doctrine is to cast doubt on the surety of Gods' word or to teach something against what God has declared with the temptation to think otherwise for several reasons...

Like the OJ trial, "If it doesn't fit, you must aquit!" As I come to know the teachings of God it is more apparent what is not of God - without having to pray about it to know - the Spirit bearing witness with my conscience/mind/soul about the matter as it relates to being in full accord with the word of God previously given.

Perhaps I should do another topic, but I've thought that the 'rock' was Jesus being who He is, the Son of God, but listening to David Hocking the other day and he pointed out some verses that say the matter is the revelation of God, which is what the new LDS NT study guide of the teachings of Jesus says. Coming from David, I'll have to reconsider that one.

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I can't stand the phrase don't "trust in the arm of flesh" for two reasons First nobody in present day English talks that way. It sounds cheesy. Secondly if I didn't trust in the arm of flesh, I would never be able to leave my door again I wouldn't trust a doctor's diagnosis or what a mechanic tells is wrong with my car. I wouldn't be able to trust the experts when they tell me the best brand of mascarra to use. And why shouldn't I trust in the "arm of flesh" when that person has been trained in spiritual matters is clearly called of God and actually understands biblical history? Far better than trusting in my feelings.

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A few scriptures that came to my mind talk about how to identify some of the doctrine of demons:

"But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him." Moroni 7:17

The devil stirs up men and women to hate the laws of God.

They who listen to Satan do not want to abide any law especially the laws of God. Their desire is to abide in sin. They want to do their own will and seek for their own gain. (Doctrine and Covenants 88:35)

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I can't stand the phrase don't "trust in the arm of flesh" for two reasons First nobody in present day English talks that way. It sounds cheesy. Secondly if I didn't trust in the arm of flesh, I would never be able to leave my door again I wouldn't trust a doctor's diagnosis or what a mechanic tells is wrong with my car. I wouldn't be able to trust the experts when they tell me the best brand of mascarra to use. And why shouldn't I trust in the "arm of flesh" when that person has been trained in spiritual matters is clearly called of God and actually understands biblical history? Far better than trusting in my feelings.

I love that phrase. It reminds me that above all I need to trust in God first. I trust in my doctor because I have prayed on it. I wouldn't blindly trust in my doctor. He needs to have tests to back up his diagnosis as well. He doesn't just look at me and say, "You have cancer" does he? No, he does a biopsy. I definitely don't trust mechanics to tell me what is wrong with my car until after they have proven themselves. I did that once and spend $500 and they didn't even do what they told me they did.

Honestly, if the prophet told me to do something that went against my basic instincts and beliefs, you better believe I would pray on that as well.

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I can't stand the phrase don't "trust in the arm of flesh" for two reasons First nobody in present day English talks that way. It sounds cheesy. Secondly if I didn't trust in the arm of flesh, I would never be able to leave my door again I wouldn't trust a doctor's diagnosis or what a mechanic tells is wrong with my car. I wouldn't be able to trust the experts when they tell me the best brand of mascarra to use. And why shouldn't I trust in the "arm of flesh" when that person has been trained in spiritual matters is clearly called of God and actually understands biblical history? Far better than trusting in my feelings.

How about Rely on the Spirit to guide you in all things. Even what choice of mascara, which way to go when traveling, discerning what someone says- even prophets..

It is about learning to hear His voice.

Trusting in the Arm of Flesh (man's strength) means not having spiritual ears focused on God (primarily), it does not mean that men and women don't have meaningfull input towards a given subject.

When one is guided by man, he will stumble, when guided by the spirit of God he will stand.

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As I come to know the teachings of God it is more apparent what is not of God - without having to pray about it to know - the Spirit bearing witness with my conscience/mind/soul about the matter as it relates to being in full accord with the word of God previously given.

Perhaps you simply don't realize that you are praying when you do that.

I think I pray to God just about every minute I'm awake. That doesn't mean I literally drop to my knees.

I can even pray to God when I have both of my eyes open, and as I think while I am writing to you now.

The word "prayer" is simply a word we use to refer to communication with our Father, which includes thanking Him or asking Him for what we desire, so when you feel the Spirit's witness about a matter you have pondered, I would say that you have prayed and God has answered.

But I still think we should offer formal prayers... on our knees... in recognition of who our Father really is, and while we also realize we are speaking through a Mediator.

The only way we can approach our Father is through the merits of Jesus Christ, and I believe that applies whether we acknowledge that fact or not.

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How Can We Know When We Hear, if something is a doctrine of demons?

It isn't boring, it feels good and is enjoyable = of a demon.

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It isn't boring, it feels good and is enjoyable = of a demon.

You forgot to mention if it contradicts Spencer W. Kimball.

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