Polygamy Doctrine = Not In The Bible

[ED500]

Since the God of the Bible never taught the believers to practice polygamy in any shape or form or version - How can you prove that it is? Where in the Bible is it ?...to practice polygamy?

Nonetheless, (1)He DICOURAGED AND COMMANDED against the polygamous relationship of his people

(2) He ENCOURAGED AND inspire His followers to practice MONOGAMY= MAN + WOMAN.

NEW TESTAMENT (KJV)

Romans 7:1-3

1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Matthew 19

"........5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder

..... 9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. "

Matthew 22: 23-32

23The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,

24Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

27And last of all the woman died also.

28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Luke 20: 27-37

"............33Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.

34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

..............."

1 Corinthians 7

1Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband

1 Timothy 3

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Ephesians 5

".......23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

......"

OLD TESTAMENT (KJV)

Genesis 2

24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Leviticus 18: 1-13

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, .............

6None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

7The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

9The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

10The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

11The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

12Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

13Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman........."

Deuteronomy 17:1-20

"........17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. ........"

1 Kings 11

1But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites:

2Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.

3And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. 4For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

Malachi 2

13And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

14Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

15And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

Before you respond - YOU MUST THINK THAT I am not questioning wither polygamy was practiced or not. I am looking for a command that God SPECIFICALLY commanded his People both in the OLD and NEW Testament to practice polgamy.

Any thoughts on these?

[Irondukesteve]

lol if there ever was a biased and subjective question I think that would be it. You have left SOOO much out of there it is unreal. I thought at first that you dont know your scriptures. However, nwI think you do, but you are just choosing to leave out all the scriptures that talk about polygamy.

Polygamy was practiced in Jesus's day and it is even mentioned in the New testament. (Matthew 22:14-28)

Abraham practied polygamy. He was COMMANDED to take Hagar as a wife!! Surely you know this story.

You also forgot the scripture where Paul says that we should be single instead of being married(according to Catholic interpretation that is) Why didnt you ask about that? DO you think it is true and natural that we should live celebate lives instead of being married?

[Calm]

Deut 25: 5 If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. 6 The first son she bears shall carry on the name of the dead brother so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.

[Ron Beron]

Since the God of the Bible never taught the believers to practice polygamy in any shape or form or version - How can you prove that it is? Where in the Bible is it ?...to practice polygamy?

Irondukesteve is correct. The following scriptures seem to bear this out.

In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...."

Even the NT doesn't condemn polygamy. Only modern moral constrictions do so.

[Irondukesteve]

Very True EnemyAce...

I heard an Islamic scholar talk about terrorists that interpret the Quran to support their cause of Jihad. He said that they select certain passages from the Quran that suite their cause and then leave out all of the ther passages that talk about peace and love.

I think one can do the same with the bible as demonstrated here by ED500. ED500 is selecting the scriptures that suite his cause and then is ignoring the scriptures that are antithetical. Thus he is providing a scewed and unbalanced view of bible theology.

I dont understand, really, how Christians can condemn polygamy when it is obvioulsy in the bible. I always want to ask them...so does that mean Abraham is not in "Abraham's Bossom but in hell?"

[SchlieffenPlan]

If I am not mistaken, Martin Luther once presided over a polygamous marriage. I am not saying that Luther is or should be accounted an authority by ED500 or any other Protestants, but he is an example of an extremely influential Protestant who had no problems with the idea. He apparently thought it was biblical.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[livy111us]

God actually gave counsel on plural marriage. He gave certain laws that

pertain to polygamy, such as: If the husband entered into a polygamous relationship, he must not

deprive the first wife of any necessities (Ex. 21:10) if a husband with more than one wife likes

one wife and hates the other, and the hated wife bears a child, it should be acknowledged as the

firstborn (Deut. 21:15-17) and also if you live with your brother and he dies, you must marry his

wife (Deut. 25:5-6) what if you are already married? So this is a law from God and is right in his

sight when it is commanded and evil when it is not. (see also Isaiah 4:1, 13:12)

[livy111us]

Martin Luther said â??consequently it its my opinion that a Christian is not free to marry several

wives unless God commands him to go beyond the liberty which is conditioned by loveâ? (Luther

to Joseph Levin Metzsch, 9 dec. 1526, in Theodore g. Tappert, ed. And trans., Luther: Letters of

Spiritual Counsel, vol. 18 of the Library of Christian Classics, pg. 276)

An account of Martin Luther not only sanctioning polygamy, but taking part in it can

also be found. â??Philip, the land grave of Hesse, desired to marry Margarete von der Saale without

divorcing his first wife (since divorce was prohibited in scripture). Neither Philip nor the

prospective bride and her mother would go ahead with the plural marriage, however, without the

written sanction of the Lutheran theologians. On Dec. 10 1539 Luther, Bucer, Melanchthon, and

others signed a document stipulating that the proposed plural marriage was acceptable, â??since the

gospel neither revokes nor forbids what was permitted in the law of Moses with respect to

marriage.â?? after being strongly advised to keep the whole thing secret for understandable political

and cultural reasons, Philip was further assured (in writing) that he had â??the approval of us allâ?? in

his proposed plural marriage. Consequently the marriage was performed on 4 March 1540 by

Dennis Melander, the Lutheran court Chaplain, with Bucer and Melanchthon presentâ? (Luthers

Brifwechsel 12:319-320, Tappert, Luther: Letters of Spiritual Counsel, pg. 288, and also 'Are

Mormons Christian?' Pg. 95 Stephen Robinson)

In 1531 Martin Luther advised Englandâ??s Henry VIII to â??take another queen in

accordance with the examples of the Patriarchs of old who had two wives at the same timeâ?

(After Polygamy was made a Sin: The Social History of Polygamy, pg 36-51)

[Irondukesteve]

Amazing....I will have to copy that post for future reference.

[erichard]

Since the God of the Bible never taught the believers to practice polygamy in any shape or form or version - How can you prove that it is? Where in the Bible is it ?...to practice polygamy?

Romans 7:1-3...

...2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

...

Any thoughts on these?

All of us grow up and learn the language of our parents. We also learn many other ideas from them-- including for many ideas about the Bible.

It is possible, but many fail at this, to be introspect and realize what truly is in the Bible, and what is simply tradition that we learned from our parents and other teachers around us. By the way, have you read the Bible completely on your own?

The verse you quote in Romans shows that a woman, under the law of God, is under the government of her husband. I find it ironic that you quote this first, since this is the basis of polygyny! This same idea is quoted here:

1 Corinthians 11

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Just because a woman is under the government of her husband does NOT mean that her husband cannot have another woman also under his government. Romans 7:2 does not in any way indicated plural marriage cannot be approved by God, but it actually supports such an idea.

Can Utah have two Federal governments over it? No, having two heads would create utter confusion. Can the Federal government have more than one State under its law? Of course.

Likewise, a man can have more than one wife under his government. The possibility of God approved plural marriage is implicit in all the entire Bible teachings about marriage. As pointed out by others, Old Testament laws give regulations concerning plural marriage, and do not condemn it.

Matthew 19

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

God clearly joined together Jacob and his four wives. And from them came the twelve tribes of Israel, whom God loved as His people. If God did not join Jacob and his wives together, then Israel, God's covenant people, is founded on utter wickedness, adultery and sin. Which is it?

Richard

[Joseph Antley]

I fail to see how any of the scriptures in the original post condemn polygamy. If ED would like to clarify, I would appreciate it.

I don't see how anyone can say polygamy is evil by the Bible's standards. Some of the greatest prophets and annointed kings of the Bible were polygamists. Under the Law given by Moses, a man was sometimes obligated to have more than one wife. The Prophet Nathan himself gave wives to David. I think I trust Nathan, a prophet of the God of the Israel, over ED500.

I am looking for a command that God SPECIFICALLY commanded his People both in the OLD and NEW Testament to practice polgamy.

I've never claimed that there is a verse in the Bible that says God specifically commanded people in the Bible to practice plural marriage, and as far as I know, no other Mormon on this board has either.

[Inquisitor]

That is fundamentally untrue. Anyone who believes this has no understanding of Bilblical scripture. Go back and read again. God sanctioned polygamy on more than one occasion.

[freakin a man]

Since the God of the Bible never taught the believers to practice polygamy in any shape or form or version - How can you prove that it is? Where in the Bible is it ?...to practice polygamy?

Since you have already formed a conclusion on the issue that the the Bible never taught believers to practice polygamy, why are you even bother asking this question? No matter what is shown, you will dismiss it.

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

Nathan the prophet condemns David's adultry with Bathsheba, yet not for adultry with his multiple wives;

"Thus saith the Lord... ...And I GAVE THEE thy WIVES... and if that had been too little, I WOULD MOREOVER have given unto thee such and such things"

This context cannot be ignored. Polygamy was a part of Jewish culture, while the Prophets of the Patriarchal Priesthood and Kings used Polygamy in order have a successor to their important positions. They eve nrequired it under certain circumstances (as mentioned, the Levirate marriage law required it), and many, even after the time of Christ were still convinced that it was a part of religious law. Even today, Yemenite Jews argue that there can be no restrictions on practicing polygamy (other than those in the Mosaic Law) on the grounds that polygamy is required within Mosaic Law. (Despite the secular laws in Israel forbidding polygamy, Yemmenite Jews there still practice this).

The practice could not have been abhorrent to Jesus and the first-century Jewish Christians, plural marriage was sanctioned in the law of Moses, the holiness there of was endorsed by both Jesus and Paul. Jesus Christ explicitly never did away with the Levirate marriage laws. There was at least one instance recorded which he could of done so. We might of expected to see some denouncement of the practice when he discussed it with the Pharisees (the ones who spoke such an instance of as it was relative to the notion of the resurrection).

So instead of the lie you are trying to pull, here is the truth;

While polygamy is now abhorred in Western culture in general and in modern Christianity particularly; neither the cultural milieu of Judaism nor early Christianity is the source. The source of is not the Bible. Its not even from any biblical heritage.

The classical abhorrence of polygamy comes from Greece and Rome. Saint Augustine as a very orthodox figure knew well that the prohibition of plural marriage in the church of his day was only a matter of 'Roman' laws and custom:

"Again, Jacob the son of Isaac is charged with having committed a great crime because he had four wives. But here there is no ground for a criminal accusation: for a plurality of wives was no crime when it was the custom; and it is a crime now, because it is no longer the custom� The only reason of its being a crime now to do this, is because custom and the laws forbid it."

Though the pagan culture could freely tolerate multiple sexual partners, it could tolerate only one wife. In that respect Greco-Roman culture is still very similar to contemporary Western culture (Multiple unmarried mistresses are legal while men who'd dare marry them first and make a life time commitment to them... get arrested instead).

You'd be surprized at just how many doctrines of so-called "Christians" that don't have a Biblical origin (as they'd claim) but was accually based on the tenets of various Greek philosophical schools (pagan religious thoughts). It still remains to be shown how these concepts infiltrated the Church to such an extent that they became official doctrines of modern Christianity.

[Magical Alma]

Great posts above, I'm really liking this board's resourcefulness.

It should be pretty clear that polygamy is THE most spiritual and sacred marriage in existence from accounts in the Bible and other external sources. Therefore, the question you should be asking yourself is: how can I learn to love polygamy? That is a hard question, but I believe that you must first WILL yourself to love the concept, then you will receive confirmation that you love it. If you continue to throw a cold shoulder, there is no doubt in my mind that you will reject it's premise forever.

Having just one wife is what our modern culture has put upon us as the universal, absolute methodical marriage, but majority =/= right. If you study it inside yourself and pray about it, you'll understand that it is absolutely necessary to gain another wife or more, in order for God's kingdom to continue to peacefully thrive. My wife had a hard time accepting this as well, but the Emma Smith D&C passages helped her along through her pride, and now we both accept that it is a very great thing in our future, one that we very much look forward to.

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

Umm, thats not exactly the conclusion a LDS would make at this time. As certain times, it was forbidden, such as in Book of Mormon and in Modern LDS revelations. Only for those who lived under the law of plural marriage, and those who were called to uphold the law may have felt it was a very spiritual experiance for them. For those of us who do not live under the law of plural marriage, trying to live that law would in contrast be a serious sin.

If you are not LDS, then of course you can belief what you want.

[Magical Alma]

Umm, thats not exactly the conclusion a LDS would make at this time. As certain times, it was forbidden, such as in Book of Mormon and in Modern LDS revelations. Only for those who lived under the law of plural marriage, upholding the laws would have been the most spiritual for them. They followed a true principle, and for those of us who do not live under the law of plural marriage, trying to live that law would in contrast be a serious sin.

If you are not LDS, then of course you can belief what you want.

Obviously it is not meant for us at this time, but in the afterlife when we must practice it to be exalted in the Celestial Kingdom. I never said we were living under it right now. However, I believe that preparing yourself mentally is very important for every LDS, as well as having faith in the scriptures, that is IS the most sacred way of marriage. We may not be supposed to live it right now, as those who were required to practice polygamy in their earthly lives by Heavenly Father have long since passed away, but understanding and loving His covenants with us is crucial for obtaining His true love.

[Irondukesteve]

I talked to my stake president and he said that you do not have to practice it to enter into the celestial kingdom. To be absolutely honest....I like the idea of a celestial companion. It is what I have always dreamed up since I was young. I love the idea of having a best friend who I share everything with. The idea of having multiple wives is not what I want out of a religion.

I know that in the past the church taught that we must practice polygamy to be exalted, but we have not taught that for over 100 years. I personally dont think that doctrine is an eternal truth. I think people can choose whether they want an eternal marriage with one or more people but both can inherit the highest degree in the celestial kingdom.

[selek]

Gentlemen of the FAIR boards!

I want you all to understand that you should be ashamed of yourselves!

Your behavior is unconscionable!

Poor ED500 came in here with a smug and inflammatory post attempting to ridicule our beliefs

and you crushed his cherished delusions without pause, sympathy, or mercy...

I ask you..is this how a "Christian" would act?

You responded with bibical texts, historical facts, and documented evidence!

How dare you!?!

Don't you know that ED500's itching ears have caused him to raise up a doctrine and a God pleasing to his own mind?

Where is the tolerance for diversity!?!

[Outshined]

Martin Luther also said:

"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter." (De Wette II, 459, pp. 329-330.)

[ED500]

If I am not mistaken, Martin Luther once presided over a polygamous marriage. I am not saying that Luther is or should be accounted an authority by ED500 or any other Protestants, but he is an example of an extremely influential Protestant who had no problems with the idea. He apparently thought it was biblical.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

My first reponse:

I guess you missed the word Bible in my original post. PLease go back - and give me your reasoning based on what the Bible says.

[selek]

My first reponse:

I guess you missed the word Bible in my original post. PLease go back - and give me your reasoning based on what the Bible says.

I can see how bothersome actually reading the rest of the thread might have been- having one's illusions dashed it terribly tiresome.

It's sooo much easier to quibble with Schieffenplan.

You got your answers- from the Bible. Will you simply ignore them because you don't like them or is there indeed some sliver of intellectual honesty hidden somewhere in the murky depths of your black little soul?

[ED500]

lol if there ever was a biased and subjective question I think that would be it. You have left SOOO much out of there it is unreal.

I thought at first that you dont know your scriptures. However, nwI think you do, but you are just choosing to leave out all the scriptures that talk about polygamy.

Polygamy was practiced in Jesus's day and it is even mentioned in the New testament. (Matthew 22:14-28)

Abraham practied polygamy. He was COMMANDED to take Hagar as a wife!! Surely you know this story.

You also forgot the scripture where Paul says that we should be single instead of being married(according to Catholic interpretation that is) Why didnt you ask about that? DO you think it is true and natural that we should live celebate lives instead of being married?

Abraham was not commanded by the God of the Bible to practice polygamy! (read below..)

WHERE IN THE BIBLE? Off course you can't find that. It is an assumption......

This is what happened as it says in the Bible: Abraham NEVER married any other woman other than Sarah.

(except when she(Sarah) died, he married Keturah

GENESIS 23

1And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty years old: these were the years of the life of Sarah.

2And Sarah died in Kirjatharba; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan: and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah, and to weep for her.

GENESIS 25

1Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.

Abraham had an illegitimate son by Hagar - that was an adulterous SIN!

It was SIN that Abraham yeilded to Sarah's plan. It was classic example of NOT TRUSTING GOD.

God did not ask Abraham to disobey him!

God eventually ordered Abraham to send away the CONCUBINE including the son, ishmael.

9And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

10Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

11And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

12And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

14And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

And thanks for the insulting claims "lol if there ever was a biased and subjective question I think that would be it. You have left SOOO much out of there it is unreal. I thought at first that you dont know your scriptures"

God Bless

[ED500]

My first reponse:

I guess you missed the word Bible in my original post. PLease go back - and give me your reasoning based on what the Bible says.

I can see how bothersome actually reading the rest of the thread might have been- having one's illusions dashed it terribly tiresome.

It's sooo much easier to quibble with Schieffenplan.

You got your answers- from the Bible. Will you simply ignore them because you don't like them or is there indeed some sliver of intellectual honesty hidden somewhere in the murky depths of your black little soul?

Your favorite quote

2 Timothy 1:7

7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

[bluebell]

Abraham had an illegitimate son by Hagar - that was an adulterous SIN!

It was SIN that Abraham yeilded to Sarah's plan. It was classic example of NOT TRUSTING GOD.

God did not ask Abraham to disobey him!

God eventually ordered Abraham to send away the CONCUBINE including the son, ishmael.

If what you say is true about abraham's child from hagar-then it would have to be true about Jacob's (Israel) children from any other but his first wife-yet God chose to covenant with ALL of His children and not just the children of Leah (who was his first and by your estimation only wife)-if your logic is correct then only these sons-Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun-would be legitamate in the eyes of God.

Does the bible, concerning jacob and his multiple wives and children, support your conclusions about polygamy always being a sin and adultery in God's eyes?