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The Correct Catholic View: Mormons Are Heretical Christians.


David Waltz

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And catholic girl, what do you call a protestant who doesn't think catholics are christian? Have you read Scott Hahn's book: Rome, Sweet Home, where he was anticatholic and did not consider catholics christian until his conversion?

Why Me, this is another point I was going to bring up on the last thread.

Rhinomelon has said it many times before and I agree with him. We cannot claim to know other's hearts. Only God knows what is in our hearts. Gene Fadness said it himself when he said he was on his mission and was a faithful and serving member of the LDS Church that he rejected key doctrine (that he would become a god himself) and embraced the trinity. So there are many LDS who apparently reject some LDS views and do embrace many tenents of Christianity. This is what David Waltz is so feverishly trying to present in the Baptism of Desire. He's right about it, but he's way off base on what he is attempting to argue with it.

I don't care at all that there are Protestants that assert that Catholics are not Christians. I KNOW we're Christians. I find it funny, actually. You are certainly free to feel likewise from your prespective, but apparently you and many LDS here cannot do that and need the validation.

I read that book and really liked it. Again, I was only amused that he was anticatholic and did not consider us Christian. Just a shoulder-shrugging moment.

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Why Me, this is another point I was going to bring up on the last thread.

Rhinomelon has said it many times before and I agree with him. We cannot claim to know other's hearts. Only God knows what is in our hearts. Gene Fadness said it himself when he said he was on his mission and was a faithful and serving member of the LDS Church that he rejected key doctrine (that he would become a god himself) and embraced the trinity. So there are many LDS who apparently reject some LDS views and do embrace many tenents of Christianity. This is what David Waltz is so feverishly trying to present in the Baptism of Desire. He's right about it, but he's way off base on what he is attempting to argue with it.

I don't care at all that there are Protestants that assert that Catholics are not Christians. I KNOW we're Christians. I find it funny, actually. You are certainly free to feel likewise from your prespective, but apparently you and many LDS here cannot do that and need the validation.

I read that book and really liked it. Again, I was only amused that he was anticatholic and did not consider us Christian. Just a shoulder-shrugging moment.

In like manner, I don't care you or any other Catholic asserts that Mormons are not Christian. I KNOW we're Christians.

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Yep, my point exactly. There are some who are content with that. But others here obviously cannot do that. <_<

I think the discontent comes from the fact that this is an LDS board. From time to time it seems like we get a resident Catholic apologist/missionary get on here and pontificate their views of how we are so wrong.

It does get under your skin.

But hey, I guess I should take it is stride because every single person I baptized on my mission was Catholic. :P

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But hey, I guess I should take it is stride because every single person I baptized on my mission was Catholic. :P

And the 1st question question that I would ask as an observing Catholic, How well did they know their Catholic faith?

After my wife and I got married, I was definitely pressured by the missionaries to convert and I told my wife I needed to figure out what it meant to be a Catholic. I was a 39 y.o. w/ a 2nd graders understanding. (My wife didn't think it was that high) Fortunately, my wife gave me the space to learn my Catholic faith. I took the 9 month RCIA course and the rest is history.

The average person who calls themselves Catholic normally can't defend themselves when missionaries come knocking at the door, IMO.

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And the 1st question question that I would ask as an observing Catholic, How well did they know their Catholic faith?

After my wife and I got married, I was definitely pressured by the missionaries to convert and I told my wife I needed to figure out what it meant to be a Catholic. I was a 39 y.o. w/ a 2nd graders understanding. (My wife didn't think it was that high) Fortunately, my wife gave me the space to learn my Catholic faith. I took the 9 month RCIA course and the rest is history.

The average person who calls themselves Catholic normally can't defend themselves when missionaries come knocking at the door, IMO.

And amazingly enough in this world where we all do value and build off of Christs teachings, why should we have to defend ourselve from each other at all? There are so many out there to destroy faith in Christ and we expend so much energy talking about who is more Christian....sometimes it breaks my heart....:P

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Heresy differs from apostasy. The apostate a fide abandons wholly the faith of Christ either by embracing Judaism, Islamism, Paganism, or simply by falling into naturalism and complete neglect of religion; the heretic always retains faith in Christ.

For such apostates as Jews and Muslims, I find it highly interesting that the Pope considers them to believe in the same God as the the Catholics:

"I should like to reiterate today all the esteem and the profound respect that I have for Muslim believers, calling to mind the words of the Second Vatican Council which for the Catholic Church are the Magna Carta of Muslim-Christian dialogue: â??The Church looks upon Muslims with respect. They worship the one God living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to humanity and to whose decrees, even the hidden ones, they seek to submit themselves whole-heartedly, just as Abraham, to whom the Islamic faith readily relates itself, submitted to Godâ?? (Declaration Nostra Aetate, 3)."

Considering that they wholly reject Christ as the son of God and Savior of the wolrd, I find it curious how their views of the 'one God' is moreso valid that 'the God of Mormonism' whom sustain His divinity.

PacMan

Veronica: This one's for you.

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And the 1st question question that I would ask as an observing Catholic, How well did they know their Catholic faith?

After my wife and I got married, I was definitely pressured by the missionaries to convert and I told my wife I needed to figure out what it meant to be a Catholic. I was a 39 y.o. w/ a 2nd graders understanding. (My wife didn't think it was that high) Fortunately, my wife gave me the space to learn my Catholic faith. I took the 9 month RCIA course and the rest is history.

The average person who calls themselves Catholic normally can't defend themselves when missionaries come knocking at the door, IMO.

To be honest I have no idea how well they knew their Catholic faith. I taught hispanic people and pretty much everyone was Catholic.

I got the impression that they were Catholic's mostly because of family tradition but almost all of them had a great childlike faith in Christ.

When they heard the message of the restoration and that the Priesthood was restored and that there is a prophet on the earth and that families can be together forever they almost jumped into the baptismal font.

I don't keep in touch with anyone I baptized as most were migrant farm workers, but I found out about 10 years ago one of the families I worked with was very active in the LDS Church.

As a missionary I found that the more humble (not necessarily monetarily speaking) a person was they more receptive they were to the spirit.

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You are setting yourself in opposition to Church teaching.

It looks like David Waltz is getting ready to join us on the heretic pile. :P

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To be honest I have no idea how well they knew their Catholic faith. I taught hispanic people and pretty much everyone was Catholic.

I got the impression that they were Catholic's mostly because of family tradition but almost all of them had a great childlike faith in Christ.

When they heard the message of the restoration and that the Priesthood was restored and that there is a prophet on the earth and that families can be together forever they almost jumped into the baptismal font.

I don't keep in touch with anyone I baptized as most were migrant farm workers, but I found out about 10 years ago one of the families I worked with was very active in the LDS Church.

As a missionary I found that the more humble (not necessarily monetarily speaking) a person was they more receptive they were to the spirit.

What blueadept said is true as is the fact that the missionaries do not teach key doctrines to unsuspecting investigators. :P I'm positive if any of those Catholics you baptized on your mission knew upfront that the LDS believe that you can become a god or that god was once a man......they would have been running for the door without a glance back. <_< I think any convert who has no prior knowledge of Mormonism is "acquired" under false pretenses under the current missionary system. It then becomes up to that person to fully realize and research themselves what they stepped into. Now granted there are those that will embrace it and go on. Then what seems to mostly happen in these areas.....they just quickly go inactive. I find it interesting that out of all these numerous Catholics you baptized, you only mention one that "was very active". I'm sure you inquired of them about your other converts and suspect you know they went inactive.

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The mainstream Christian reluctance in granting the name "Christian" to Mormons is pretty silly. On the other hand, Mormons might consider how they feel about FLDS using the name "Mormon" or even "Latter day saint." As long as Mormons refuse to acknowledge their fellow "heretical Mormon" brethren as valid "Mormons" or "latter day saints," it's pure hypocrisy to demand recognition of the term "Christian" from mainstream Christians.

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What blueadept said is true as is the fact that the missionaries do not teach key doctrines to unsuspecting investigators. <_< I'm positive if any of those Catholics you baptized on your mission knew upfront that the LDS believe that you can become a god or that god was once a man......they would have been running for the door without a glance back. :unsure: I think any convert who has no prior knowledge of Mormonism is "acquired" under false pretenses under the current missionary system. It then becomes up to that person to fully realize and research themselves what they stepped into. Now granted there are those that will embrace it and go on. Then what seems to mostly happen in these areas.....they just quickly go inactive. I find it interesting that out of all these numerous Catholics you baptized, you only mention one that "was very active". I'm sure you inquired of them about your other converts and suspect you know they went inactive.

If you had taken the time to read my post you would have noted that the reason I don't have contact with anyone is because I taught migrant farm workers. You know the type; you try and keep in touch with them.

Why would you think missionaries teach under false pretenses. That only shows you prejudice and extreme ignorance of missionary work.

Why would an LDS person have a problem (convert or not) with the true doctrine that we can attain all the blessings of the Father (Godhood/Exaltation) or that God was once a man? I am a convert (joined when I was 17) and I don't have a problem with it.

You see it is clear you don't understand faith. You see the only thing missionaries should teach is that the fulness of the Gospel has been restored. Joseph Smith is the prophet of the restoration and by the power of God Joseph translated the Book of Mormon and it is true.

Now if one gains a testimony of the truthfulness of the former (which is taught openly by the missionaries under no pretense at all) then the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true Church of Christ containing the fulness of His Gospel. All other doctrines therefore are true. You can "poo poo" the doctrines all you want; you have the right to be wrong.

Really to the Catholics I taught we just brought up things like the transsubstantiation and infants going to hell if not baptized and they did go running, right to the baptismal font to be baptized by immersion like Christ was (somewhat TIC) :P

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What blueadept said is true as is the fact that the missionaries do not teach key doctrines to unsuspecting investigators. <_< I'm positive if any of those Catholics you baptized on your mission knew upfront that the LDS believe that you can become a god or that god was once a man......they would have been running for the door without a glance back. :unsure: I think any convert who has no prior knowledge of Mormonism is "acquired" under false pretenses under the current missionary system. It then becomes up to that person to fully realize and research themselves what they stepped into. Now granted there are those that will embrace it and go on. Then what seems to mostly happen in these areas.....they just quickly go inactive. I find it interesting that out of all these numerous Catholics you baptized, you only mention one that "was very active". I'm sure you inquired of them about your other converts and suspect you know they went inactive.

The assertions that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the missionaries who represent it, are dishonest are duly noted! :P As for your assertion that any Catholics confronted with these doctrines "upfront" would have been "running for the door without a glance back," methinks you're projecting on that one. As for your assertion that Roman Catholic converts to the Church of Jesus Christ "quickly go inactive," well, you got us on that one somewhat. As a Church, we can do, are doing, and will do a better job of retention. However, your being "sure" about Docrick's inquiring about "his" other converts and "suspect[ing]" he knows that "they went inactive" is nothing more than baseless, smug posturing. (I think you're projecting/wishing on that one, too.)

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What blueadept said is true as is the fact that the missionaries do not teach key doctrines to unsuspecting investigators. :P I'm positive if any of those Catholics you baptized on your mission knew upfront that the LDS believe that you can become a god or that god was once a man......they would have been running for the door without a glance back. <_< I think any convert who has no prior knowledge of Mormonism is "acquired" under false pretenses under the current missionary system. It then becomes up to that person to fully realize and research themselves what they stepped into. Now granted there are those that will embrace it and go on. Then what seems to mostly happen in these areas.....they just quickly go inactive. I find it interesting that out of all these numerous Catholics you baptized, you only mention one that "was very active". I'm sure you inquired of them about your other converts and suspect you know they went inactive.

My dad was a convert from Catholicism. He's now the second counselor in the bishopric.

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Why Catholics should consider Mormons as heretical Christians, and not as non-Christians

IMHO, the The Catholic Encyclopedia is quite clear on this matter; I cannot fathom how any Catholic, after reading the above, can continue to maintain that Mormons are something other than heretical Christians.

Grace and peace,

David

David,

I agree with your statement of the LDS church being described as "heretical Christians", The LDS Church professes a belief in Christ like all Christians with a difference in the understanding of the nature of God(s) and various other heretical beliefs that they claim through divine gnosis (revelation). The Jews, Muslims, Hindus, ect. are non-Christians because they do not profess a belief in Christ. How do the LDS fall into this category of non-Christian? I don't understand how my Catholic brothers and sisters could disagree with David's Statement. Would all of the Catholics be offended if the Jews defined our Religion as heretical Judaism? In their eye's that is exactly what we were, because of our same belief in the God of Abraham and His Holy Word, they did not consider us Pagans, Hindus, ect. "Heretical Christian" is the only definition that fits the LDS Church and anything else would be absurd.

In Christ

Catholic Guy

P.S. David what do you think of the 12th century heresy, the Albigenses who were not considered a Christian heresy but an extra-Christian religion.

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The mainstream Christian reluctance in granting the name "Christian" to Mormons is pretty silly. On the other hand, Mormons might consider how they feel about FLDS using the name "Mormon" or even "Latter day saint." As long as Mormons refuse to acknowledge their fellow "heretical Mormon" brethren as valid "Mormons" or "latter day saints," it's pure hypocrisy to demand recognition of the term "Christian" from mainstream Christians.

Your attempt to equate some Christians' objecting to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being called "Christian" and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' objecting to breakaway/apostate sects using the term "Mormon" is not only an "apples-to-oranges" comparison, it's an "apples-to-Buicks" comparison. In one case, it's only a subset of the Christian world that objects to Latter-day Saints' use of the word "Christian"; in the other case, it's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints itself that objects to breakaway/apostate sects' use of the word "Mormon." Furthermore, a non-LDS Christian who hears the accusation that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not Christian is apt to become confused, just as would a non-LDS Christian who hears the claim that members of breakaway/apostate sects are "Mormon" is apt to become confused.

In summary, in one case (the attempted appropriation of the term "Christian" by some non-LDS Christians), the refusal to allow Latter-day Saints to define themselves is meant to create confusion, while in the other case (the attempt/desire by the Church to protect the designation "Mormon" by refusing to allow breakaway/apostate sects to use the designation "Mormon") is meant to obviate confusion.

But then, you already knew all that.

Sorry to spoil your attempt at "pot-stirring." :P

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I don't care at all that there are Protestants that assert that Catholics are not Christians. I KNOW we're Christians. I find it funny, actually. You are certainly free to feel likewise from your prespective, but apparently you and many LDS here cannot do that and need the validation.

I don't need "validation" from any outsider to confirm that my wife and my children and I are Christians. But I will never roll over and play dead when anybody takes it upon himself or herself to define me and my family out of Christendom.

Typically, when the question is asked "Are you a Christian?" or "What religion is she?" the answer to that question is non-controversial. The military isn't asking for the late "Dr." Walter Martin's opinion of a young man's theology when it asks that recruit to identify his religious faith. The young man's answer goes into his files and onto his dog tags. Nor does a hospital admissions office seek permission from the Christian Research Institute before it types "Christian" onto a patient's wrist band. The patient's self-identification carries the day.

When almanacs list Thailand as predominantly Buddhist, or England as majority Christian, they haven't consulted with Bill McKeever, Utah Lighthouse Ministries, Watchman Fellowship, or any of the other approximately thirteen thousand five hundred and seventy-three enterprises that have set themselves up as self-appointed judges of other peoples' faiths. Saying that Brazil is mostly Christian is considered a statement of fact. Which is why speciously pseudo-factual declarations that Mormons aren't Christian are so profoundly misleading for gullible people who may encounter them. They think that they're being handed a fact, when, actually, they're being fed a line.

I'm not surprised that a Roman Catholic can laugh off claims that Roman Catholicism isn't Christian. Roman Catholicism, after all, is the dominant presence in Western Christendom, and has been such for, oh, the past millennium and a half or so. Denials that Roman Catholics are Christians flourish only in the fever swamps of benighted religious bigotry, and have no chance whatsoever of convincing the broader public. Anybody who denies that Catholicism is Christian forfeits, by that very denial, any shred of plausibility on such questions. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, however, are a small religious minority -- relatively little known and comparatively recent -- and they are, therefore, vulnerable to disinformation and misrepresentation in a way that Catholicism and Catholics are not. Catholicism is defined by a long and reasonably well-known history, and by the fact that virtually everybody everywhere knows one or more Catholics. Latter-day Saints do not have that luxury. We have no choice but to be vigilant, lest others define us before we have a chance to publicly define ourselves.

What blueadept said is true as is the fact that the missionaries do not teach key doctrines to unsuspecting investigators.

I vigorously contest this claim. Missionaries teach that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that salvation is only through Christ's atoning sacrifice, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that the Book of Mormon records the history of ancient Americans (including a visit to them of the resurrected Savior), that the priesthood has been restored, that priesthood ordinances are necessary for salvation, that the Church is led today by prophets and apostles, that life continues after death (ideally, in eternal family units), that prayer is efficacious, that God has a body, etc., etc., etc.

I'm positive if any of those Catholics you baptized on your mission knew upfront that the LDS believe that you can become a god or that god was once a man......they would have been running for the door without a glance back.

I wonder if that's true. If so, I blame poor Catholic education. They should have been told about the ancient Christian doctrine of theosis. (Among other things, see, on this, Father Jordan Vajda's fascinating master's thesis, reprinted by FARMS, entitled Partakers of the Divine Nature.)

I think any convert who has no prior knowledge of Mormonism is "acquired" under false pretenses under the current missionary system.

While accusations that we Mormons are operating dishonestly and in bad faith never really lose their charm, I'm more interested in what "Catholic Girl" has to say about the elaborate system of instruction in doctrines of the Christian faith recorded in Matthew 4:17-22, to which Simon Peter, Andrew, James, and John were subjected before they were allowed to leave everything and follow Jesus. It must have required all of thirty seconds.

As for the standard arguments that Latter-day Saints are not Christians, I believe that I've dealt with all of them in my book Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints.

Finally, many thanks for David Waltz and Catholic Guy, whose charity and reasonableness on this matter represent Catholicism at its best.

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The mainstream Christian reluctance in granting the name "Christian" to Mormons is pretty silly. On the other hand, Mormons might consider how they feel about FLDS using the name "Mormon" or even "Latter day saint." As long as Mormons refuse to acknowledge their fellow "heretical Mormon" brethren as valid "Mormons" or "latter day saints," it's pure hypocrisy to demand recognition of the term "Christian" from mainstream Christians.

The term Mormonism applies equally well to all faiths that embrace the Book of Mormon as scripture. I don't see any efforts on the part of the LDS to deny this title to others. Denying them their own definitions and seeing that people understand them as distinct entities from the COJCOLDS are two different matters. The Catholics, Protestants and EVs are perfectly capable of distinguishing themselves from us without denying the essential belief that we believe in Christ and therefore call ouselves Christian.

Apples and Oranges.

I reiterate the reasons people want to deny us a place in the broader category of Christendom? For the most part it's not about distinguishing themselves from us, but scare mongering to potential converts to our Church.

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The assertions that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the missionaries who represent it, are dishonest are duly noted! <_< As for your assertion that any Catholics confronted with these doctrines "upfront" would have been "running for the door without a glance back," methinks you're projecting on that one. As for your assertion that Roman Catholic converts to the Church of Jesus Christ "quickly go inactive," well, you got us on that one somewhat. As a Church, we can do, are doing, and will do a better job of retention. However, your being "sure" about Docrick's inquiring about "his" other converts and "suspect[ing]" he knows that "they went inactive" is nothing more than baseless, smug posturing. (I think you're projecting/wishing on that one, too.)

Hmmmm, and this statement from Docrick wouldn't be smug posturing directed at us?

But hey, I guess I should take it is stride because every single person I baptized on my mission was Catholic. :P

Anyhow, I'm thinking/projecting/wishing nothing. The retention speaks for itself.

I would love to go around and around with all this, but I must get off this time-warp vortex of a computer. My daughter is getting surgery tomorrow. So I am unsure of when I can check back, but I will.

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Anyhow, I'm thinking/projecting/wishing nothing. The retention speaks for itself.

Does it?

Perhaps I'm deaf.

Are you suggesting that purportedly high inactivity rates among Catholic converts to Mormonism derive from those converts learning about doctrines of which the missionaries had not informed them? If so, could you please supply some evidence for that contention? I don't find it at all self-evident.

And are you perhaps insinuating, as well, that such purportedly high inactivity rates among Catholic converts to Mormonism are not matched by analogous (and perhaps even higher) rates of non-participation among Catholics who don't convert to Mormonism? If so, I would surely like to see the data upon which you're basing your insinuation.

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Not to be subversive or disrespectful to the Catholics in here, but I have a very interesting question.

Let me just assert that I am a Christian, no matter what anyone says, it really does not affect me one way or another whether the Catholic church recognizes me as Christian. The sacrifice, or Atonement, of Christ is a crucial part of my existance, and it is at the center of my faith as a member of the LDS church.

Okay. I was baptized in the Catholic church as an infant, and later my family joined the LDS church and I was baptized in it. Am I considered a heretical Christian because I was baptized Catholic and I profess Christ as my savior, yet I follow a set of doctrine different from the Catholic church? Or does my baptism in the LDS faith suplant my previous baptism. If the Catholic church doesn't recognise the LDS baptism, would that mean that I am technically still Catholic, in their view?

I guess that it doesn't matter. I just want to know if I am a heratic or a hethen!

tootles!

Jenn

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Not to be subversive or disrespectful to the Catholics in here, but I have a very interesting question.

Let me just assert that I am a Christian, no matter what anyone says, it really does not affect me one way or another whether the Catholic church recognizes me as Christian. The sacrifice, or Atonement, of Christ is a crucial part of my existance, and it is at the center of my faith as a member of the LDS church.

Okay. I was baptized in the Catholic church as an infant, and later my family joined the LDS church and I was baptized in it. Am I considered a heretical Christian because I was baptized Catholic and I profess Christ as my savior, yet I follow a set of doctrine different from the Catholic church? Or does my baptism in the LDS faith suplant my previous baptism. If the Catholic church doesn't recognise the LDS baptism, would that mean that I am technically still Catholic, in their view?

I guess that it doesn't matter. I just want to know if I am a heratic or a hethen!

tootles!

Jenn

You're still Catholic.

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David Waltz,

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas".

Why do you consider Mormons heretical, isn't a heresy "post-baptismal" (see offical Catholic teaching below)? Mormons do not make it as far as "baptismal" since their baptisms are not valid.

The Catholic Catechism defines heresy as:

2089 - Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;

after reading the above, can continue to maintain that Mormons are something other than heretical Christians.

A Mormon baptism is not valid because of heretical reasons or doctrinal errors (see link below) it is because there are four requirements for the valid administration of the sacrament of Baptism: the matter, the form, the intention of the minister, and the right disposition of the recipient.

THE QUESTION OF THE VALIDITY OF BAPTISM CONFERRED IN THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

http://www.ewtn.com/library/Theology/MORMBAP1.HTM

Catholic Answers (see link below) says that the Catholic Church does not accept Mormon baptism because "although Mormons and Catholics use the same words, those words have completely unrelated meanings for each religion. The Mormonâ??s very concept of God is infinitely different from that of Christiansâ??even though they call themselves the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints."

Why doesnâ??t the Catholic Church accept Mormon baptism?

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0305qq.asp

I cannot fathom how any Catholic,

Can you fathom why the EWTN, the Catholic TV station responded to "why me" the way it did ... Is EWTN incorrect in its defination of a Christian?

Why Mormons Are Not Christian..., Catholic TV responds.

http://www.fairboards.org/index.php?s=&amp...mp;p=1208048766

A christian is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, and that he died for our sins, and rose from the grave. A Christian believes that we have the hope of eternal life through faith in His life, death and resurrection. A Christian is baptized with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. These teachings put mormons outside the Christian faith because Mormons do not believe these things. Mormons believe that there are many gods, but the ancient faith of Isreal and of Christians professes "Hear O Isreal: The lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might" (Dueteronomy 6: 4-5) Christians do not recognize the Book of Mormon as a text inspired by God. There are other differences that would cause one to say that Mormons are not Christians, they are Mormons. These truths are said not in condemnation, but simply stated as truth. All Christians, Mormons, Muslims, and all humanity are dependent upon the grace and mercy of God...

Me: And I have quoted the CCC it terms of â??Baptism of Desireâ?.

When does the "Baptism of Desire" occur ... is it before or after a person dies?

That section says nothing about individuals who believe on Jesus Christ, trust in His atonement, and try to follow His teachings, but have accepted an invalid form of sacramental baptism. If you think that the Baptism of Desire does not come into play with such individuals, well, IMHO, you are dead wrong.

Do you consider Jehovah Witness Christian?

Quite honestly, I am at a loss as to why you (and others) persist in rejecting the information I have provided on this subjectâ??it seems so clear to meâ?¦

It seems clear to me that the EWTN, the Catholic TV station, do not consider Mormons Christians.

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