Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Doctor Steuss

Trinity, Trinity, Trinity.

Recommended Posts

Bumpin' fer later... :P

In my best The Who impression:

Rhino can you hear me?

Rhino can you heeaar me?

Share this post


Link to post

Matt. 12:32

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

I asked Rhino in a PM about this verse, and after his response, he suggested I post it on this thread in hopes to get some other perspectives from my Mainstream brothers and sisters (I was going to post his PM response, but I figured Iâ??d let him do it in case thereâ??s anything he wanted to add). How exactly does this verse work in regards to the Trinity? If they are all the same God (albeit, distinct persons with a united will), how can a sin against one person of the Trinity be forgiven, but the same sin against another person of the Trinity not be forgiven?

Thanks all,

Stu

The reason the sin against the Holy Spirit is not forgivable is not because it is more grave than a sin against the Father or the Son, but because of the spiritual position in which is puts the sinner.

Now there are a few different views on just what this sin is. St. Augustine believed that is was the rejection of the gospel unto death. Others hold, and this is my view, that the sin against the Holy Sirit is knowing God perfectly and still rejecting him as evil. (Since the verse in questions happens after the Pharisees attribute a miracle to the Devil, this has support in context.) This sin is unforgivable because it closes the door to penitence, not because it is too grave to forgive.

Share this post


Link to post

[...]St. Augustine believed that is was the rejection of the gospel unto death. [...]

Thank you soren for giving your perspective. Do you happen to have the Augustine quote?

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you soren for giving your perspective. Do you happen to have the Augustine quote?

Haven't got an Augustine citation on hand, although it was a view he uttered frequently. Here is a summary from Aquinas on the Fathers' opinions about this blasphemy.

Three meanings have been given to the sin against the Holy Ghost. For the earlier doctors, viz. Athanasius (Super Matth. xii, 32), Hilary (Can. xii in Matth.), Ambrose (Super Luc. xii, 10), Jerome (Super Matth. xii), and Chrysostom (Hom. xli in Matth.), say that the sin against the Holy Ghost is literally to utter a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, whether by Holy Spirit we understand the essential name applicable to the whole Trinity, each Person of which is a Spirit and is holy, or the personal name of one of the Persons of the Trinity, in which sense blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is distinct from the blasphemy against the Son of Man (Matthew 12:32), for Christ did certain things in respect of His human nature, by eating, drinking, and such like actions, while He did others in respect of His Godhead, by casting out devils, raising the dead, and the like: which things He did both by the power of His own Godhead and by the operation of the Holy Ghost, of Whom He was full, according to his human nature. Now the Jews began by speaking blasphemy against the Son of Man, when they said (Matthew 11:19) that He was "a glutton . . . a wine drinker," and a "friend of publicans": but afterwards they blasphemed against the Holy Ghost, when they ascribed to the prince of devils those works which Christ did by the power of His own Divine Nature and by the operation of the Holy Ghost.

Augustine, however (De Verb. Dom., Serm. lxxi), says that blasphemy or the sin against the Holy Ghost, is final impenitence when, namely, a man perseveres in mortal sin until death, and that it is not confined to utterance by word of mouth, but extends to words in thought and deed, not to one word only, but to many. Now this word, in this sense, is said to be uttered against the Holy Ghost, because it is contrary to the remission of sins, which is the work of the Holy Ghost, Who is the charity both of the Father and of the Son. Nor did Our Lord say this to the Jews, as though they had sinned against the Holy Ghost, since they were not yet guilty of final impenitence, but He warned them, lest by similar utterances they should come to sin against the Holy Ghost: and it is in this sense that we are to understand Mark 3:29,30, where after Our Lord had said: "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost," etc. the Evangelist adds, "because they said: He hath an unclean spirit."

But others understand it differently, and say that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, is a sin committed against that good which is appropriated to the Holy Ghost: because goodness is appropriated to the Holy Ghost, just a power is appropriated to the Father, and wisdom to the Son. Hence they say that when a man sins through weakness, it is a sin "against the Father"; that when he sins through ignorance, it is a sin "against the Son"; and that when he sins through certain malice, i.e. through the very choosing of evil, as explained above (I-II, 78, 1 ,3), it is a sin "against the Holy Ghost."

Now this may happen in two ways. First by reason of the very inclination of a vicious habit which we call malice, and, in this way, to sin through malice is not the same as to sin against the Holy Ghost. On another way it happens that by reason of contempt, that which might have prevented the choosing of evil, is rejected or removed; thus hope is removed by despair, and fear by presumption, and so on, as we shall explain further on (Q 20,21). Now all these things which prevent the choosing of sin are effects of the Holy Ghost in us; so that, in this sense, to sin through malice is to sin against the Holy Ghost.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×