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David Bokovoy

Psalm 47: A Biblical Prayer to the Gods of

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Based upon a recent thread here on the FAIR board, together with the fact that I would actually like to work through my thoughts on this topic, I decided now might be a good time to share with those interested the reason why I believe Psalm 47 is a biblical poem in which the gods of the Divine Council are commanded to praise Yahweh.

Contrary to everything I

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Thanks Dan for the encouragement.

If my reading for Psalm 47:7 is correct, then I need to read verse 8 as:

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Contrary to everything I

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Another point relevant to this topic is the fact that the Bible actually features prayers addressed to the divine council of deities. Therefore, my analysis of Psalm 47 does not lack a proper historical and/or contextual background.

While at first, the idea of a prayer addressed to the gods of the divine council might seem odd, in reality, do to the fundamental role assumed by the council in biblical cosmology, it would be incredibly strange indeed, if the Bible actually lacked these sorts of council invocations.

In truth, council prayers in the Bible are quite similar to Hittite prayers in which the Hittite king addresses the gods of the heavenly court.

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Niiiiiiiiiiiice work David.............. very interesting reading............THANK YOU. I shall look into some things along these lines also, probably tomorrow. Not that you need my help, I'm a midget amongst giants here...........

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From another thread, Marrk expressed the following sentiment regarding my views:

==Davids current thread is a example, no context, leaves out other uses of a word..etc. This is a direct LDS slant to prove that there are more than one god.

In order to help Mark and/or any other interested readers questioning the attestation of a council of deities in the Bible, I will attempt to do a better job at laying out a basic context.

Contrary to Mark

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Hi David,

What do these verses mean for the the word elohim in context?

1Ch 16:26 For all the gods (elohim)of the people [are] idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

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Psa 96:5 For all the gods (elohim) of the nations [are] idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

Instead the gods are called elohim which, contrary to Mark

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Hello Mark,

Thanks for taking an interest in my thread.

==What do these verses mean for the the word elohim in context? Obviously the term elohim is used here for a non-being, it is a generic word and must be taken in context. Do you believe that these idols represented real living deities

The word elohim is not simply a generic term. It means God or gods. To take this one passage (I Ch 16 quotes Ps. 96) which contains the statement

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I'd also point out (though I don't recall my source) that the idea that Babylonians, Philistines, Assyrians, Hittites, etc. believed that idols were their actual Gods in physical form is an exaggeration for the sake of polemics, by the authors of the Hebrew Bible.

It's clear from reading the sources of these civilizations *themselves* (as opposed to the Bibles presentation of them) that they did not believe that a particular idol of stone was Marduk incarnate, was Ishtar incarnate.

To say that there is no God like Yahweh is not to deny their existance but to say that he is superior to them. Yahweh saves and delivers, but other deities cannot, hence the over-riding importance of believing and serving Yahweh. It's not (from an Israelite perspective) that they don't exist, but that they are incapable of doing what Yahweh can.

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==To say that there is no God like Yahweh is not to deny their existance but to say that he is superior to them.

This is a very important point that those who would deny the actual existence of the biblical gods should carefully consider.

Since Yahweh both creates and allots the gods to the nations of the world, the gods cannot represent mere idols. When biblical authors proclaim Yahweh

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Hi David,

The word elohim is not simply a generic term. It means God or gods. To take this one passage (I Ch 16 quotes Ps. 96) which contains the statement

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David--

Daniel Peterson seems pleased with your work. At the risk of sounding cynical--perhaps if you can find a way to knock down Isaiah 43:10-11 he'll see that they put you on the BYU/FARMS payroll...

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Hello Mark,

==I didn't say that it "always" refers to idols, what I was pointing out is that it does not always refer to God

Of course it doesn

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Hello Eric,

==Daniel Peterson seems pleased with your work.

I suspect the reason Dan liked the suggestion is because Dan understands Semitic languages and the historical and theological background to the Hebrew Bible. Dan could therefore follow the argument.

==At the risk of sounding cynical--perhaps if you can find a way to knock down Isaiah 43:10-11 he'll see that they put you on the BYU/FARMS payroll...

But it's actually very easy to do Eric (though I hardly consider explaining the true meaning of these passages "knocking them down").

In the Bible, the term

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The Bible also declares that God has always existed and is uncreated, something which is lacking in Mormon theology.

-False, Mormon theology does declare the gnolaumistic exsistence of the supreme. Too boot; Mormon theology includes biblical texts. See Abr 3:18, D&C 3:2, 20:28, 121:32.

Uncreated-1. Not having been created; not yet in existence.

2. Existing of itself; uncaused.

I'm assuming this portion and context uses definition 2, which would be a good synonym for Gnolaum.

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Hi David,

Thats it ? Did you even read what I wrote?

more later

Mark

John 1:12

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Hello Qanta,

==Really? So I suspect when God said, "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." (Isaiah 43:10); He was just messing around.

God was hardly

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Hi David,

You didn't address or answer most of my questions, I will centainly address your post when I get home to night, I'm doing a big commute so I'll respond in detail later, but again go back and read my posts, and address the questions.

If man chooses to worship a creation of God, why does that make God a idol maker in the context of your post? man has the free agency for choice..read Romans 1. Your jumping all over the board appling universal context to anything you choose, we nned to setle the context of psalms 47 and the Deut, passage in mind before we jump around.

Deu 4:28 And there ye shall serve gods (elohim), the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

What does elohim refer to here?

Do you believe that these deities existed or exist?

More later

Mark

John 1;12

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I think it would be somewhat superfluous to reach for this interpretation, mainly because the existence of a divine council has already been established in other scriptures. What would make this verse unique, if your interpretation is true, is that it would mark the first time the "gods" of the council are being worshipped by the people. This is probably why your interpretation runs contrary to everything you've read.

Though, from a strictly grammatical approach your translation might be plausible, I think the overall context makes it unlikely. The 47th Psalm is only nine verses, and the word elohim appears eight times:

1 Oh clap your hands, all ye peoples; Shout unto elohim with the voice of triumph.

2 For Jehovah Most High is terrible; He is a great King over all the earth.

3 He subdueth peoples under us, And nations under our feet.

4 He chooseth our inheritance for us, The glory of Jacob whom he loved. Selah

5 Elohim is gone up with a shout, Jehovah with the sound of a trumpet.

6 Sing praise to elohim, sing praises: Sing praises unto our King, sing praises.

7 For elohim is the King of all the earth: Sing ye praises with understanding.

8 Elohim reigneth over the nations: Elohim sitteth upon his holy throne.

9 The princes of the peoples are gathered together To be the people of the elohim of Abraham: For the shields of the earth belong unto elohim; He is greatly exalted.

Unless you have an argument thats soundly reinterprets the contextual verses, it seems the elohim, though plausibly plural in vs 7, are the givers, not the recipients of worship. Verses 8-9 unambiguously render elohim in the singular, twice referring to him as he, and as a being who sits on his throne. It would seem out of place for the preceding verse to demand worship of, not the Most High, but the choir of deities whose job is also to worship Jehovah.

A council in heaven that is worshipped by humans isn't something I think we need to be pushing for.

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Do you believe that these deities existed or exist?

It's clear that the Israelites thought they existed. An Israelite could acknowledge the existance of these other deities without worshipping them, as many of the texts David has cited indicate.

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Do you believe that these deities existed or exist?

It's clear that the Israelites thought they existed. An Israelite could acknowledge the existance of these other deities without worshipping them, as many of the texts David has cited indicate.

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