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About LoudmouthMormon

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    Member: Moves Upon the Waters

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  1. The bet is that LDS gay couples will be sealed in the temple. Quite a cultural shift. My anarchist/atheist buddy figures it's inevitable given cultural trends and an organization's need to grow. I figure if the Catholic church can be against birth control across the decades and cultures, we can keep our boundaries with the notion that God wants his children to engage in boy-girl marriage only.
  2. I have a 25 year bet with an atheist anarchist facebook arguing buddy. He figures that the cultural acceptance of homosexuality will force the humans running the church to claim to have a revelation making it ok to do same-sex sealings in the temple. It is, from his perspective, the only way an evil religious institution such as ours will be able to maintain power. I, of course, figure the church is what it claims to be, led by my Lord and Savior via prophets who believe the stuff they say about how the family is central to God's plan, and other stuff in the Proclomation on the Family. So we have a bet. In 25 years, if the church does not allow same-sex sealings, he must put on a pink tutu and sing I'm a little Teapot. If that is a thing, then I have to wear the tutu. The bet is fixed, and I don't think it has dawned on him yet. If he's right, and I wake up in 25 years and find myself in a church that does same-sex sealings in the temple, me wearing a pink tutu won't be that big of a thing.
  3. Smart saints from both sides of the political aisle yearn for the day when Christ returns and makes our system of government no longer necessary. I'm told the wicked will burn as stubble. Sort of looking forward to it - not sure if I'll make it to the other side of that process, but a guy can hope.
  4. Wow. "You guys suck so bad, you can't call yourselves cops any more." If there was ever a clear story about how a certain organization's leadership has failed to lead, this would have to rank up there. I don't think this story really says anything about the folks out doing police work, this is a story about the bosses.
  5. I have never been in a debate that has changed my mind (except with my wife, where I change it often). That said, watching others debate has been one of the major building blocks of my testimony. Before I became a loudmouth poster, I spent a good 2-3 years lurking and watching critic and faithful clash on various boards. I watched, read, researched, decided for myself who had the stronger argument and the weaker one. So yeah, I go into debates with the understanding that neither party will budge a dang inch in our opinions, but a witness to the exchange might be greatly impacted. Honestly, the notion helps me be less of a jerkwad. Sometimes.
  6. Just because I like charts so much, here's a random chart on a random tangent. You're reading correctly - for a couple years there, the church excommunicated more than it baptized.
  7. The cited wiki article does that in several different ways, and sort of reinforces PG's data - barring the occasional outlier, since 1987, we've seen remarkably uniform steadiness. Similar absolute numbers, decreasing percentages. Cool observation PhysicsGuy - I don't know what's happening either.
  8. Ooh! Go into business with this guy, selling ward members placebos dressed up as "healer approved miracle cures"! There are dollars to be made here, dollars I tells ya!
  9. Yay statistics! According to the first chart thingy, if you wanna increase your chances of being "very happy" you should move to Mexico or Columbia. *smirk*
  10. I recently attended a 6 week citizen's police academy thing, learning about different departments and policies and methods and all that. The Sex crimes against children unit was sobering and informative. The officer talked about how interviews are done with children, by trained pediatric forensic interviewers. The interviewers are specifically trained to not plant seeds, suggest ideas, even broach topics. They lead wandering discussions with vaguely worded questions about how the kid is feeling, and gently pursue things the kids bring up. If a kid accuses an adult of molesting or hurting them, that stuff in no way comes from the interviewer. The officer talked about his worst experience, where a mom kept trying to prime her kid to lie about the dad. The kid had half a dozen interviews. Eventually, the interviewer got to the source of the trauma, it was the repeat interviews the child was being forced to have with the interviewer. Mom went to jail and dad was exonerated. The officer made mention of how the whole process of interviewing children has changed and improved over the decades, and how it used to be traumatic to the kids and generate false positives.
  11. I suppose it's worth the effort to see if dude is right or not. Does anyone have this link? Here's what I found. So yeah, if I don't donate, I'll be failing to follow some encouragement given by the prophet. Doesn't sound as bad when you add the "e" word in there...
  12. The Good News, at it's most basic form, appeals to people who honestly don't know, or have several conflicting news sources: - There is indeed a sovereign power running the universe. And it's not a fickle, jealous, evil, or indifferent power. It is a loving father. - He has a plan for each of us individually, and it's a good plan for us. - The Bible and BoM are exactly what they claim to be, best sources of real good news. - The church and it's prophets are exactly what they claim to be too, live and continuing sources of this real good news.
  13. You mean you feel sorry for the LDS scholar who wants to work for/get published by the Maxwell Institute, right? Because Elder Maxwell made no such desire known for scholars in general, and that's pretty blatantly obvious, right? For that matter, could you cite the passages that give you reason to think Elder Holland thinks there's even a difference to be found between "church" and "truth"?
  14. Summarizing the debate: Somewhere in the universe, a line exists. On one side of the line, a human being with inalienable rights deserves protection of law. On the other side of that line, a nonhuman glob of cells is part of someone's body, and they can choose do do whatever they want with it. Pretty much everyone believes human life has value, and should have the protection of law. Pretty much everyone believes nonhuman things aren't human, and shouldn't have the protection of law. We fight over where to draw the line, so we'll know whose rights to protect, and who to throw in jail because they've murdered someone. Where do you draw the line? At what point is someone guilty of taking an innocent life, if they destroy one of these? - When they engage in self-pleasure/spill seed/use birth control/[insert euphemism here]? - The exact nanosecond a sperm meets an egg? - A pre-morula zygote? - A blastocyst? - A multi-cell-layered gastrula? - A blastopore, where you can first see a mouth and anus? - When stuff that will eventually be muscle and bone and stuff forms? - When you can see a beating heart? - When you see lungs? - When you can first detect some sort of brain activity? - When limb movement starts? - When the webbed toes start losing their webbing? - When it grows fingernails and is covered by hair, and stops being an embryo? - When it starts being a fetus? (week 8 )? - After the risk of natural miscarriage drops to lower levels? - When its eyes finally open? - When it's not translucent and showing veins any more? - When it starts reacting to sound? - When it has a chance of surviving outside the womb? (around month 6) - When it first responds to pain or light? - When it loses all its body hair? - Month 7? 8? - When it is full term? - When it finds itself outside of the mother? - When the cord is cut? - When it is surviving independently of machines and medicine? - When it gets potty trained? - When it tells it's first dirty joke? - Only after it votes Democrat? Remember folks, we gotta draw the line, and enshrine that line in law. So we'll know who to arrest, and who to protect as they make decisions about their body. Remember, there's no such thing as "Well, obviously it needs to be here", because no, it's not obvious to everybody. I've personally witnessed someone express the truthful opinion that the woman should be able to abort her baby within the first 90 days after birth. Happy guessing! Happy scripture-interpreting! Happy morals-based-on-your-worldviewing! If you think there's a difference between life and human life, please draw those lines as well.
  15. Yes. In our stake, we had a kid commit suicide, then a year later a second kid from another family, then after that a second kid from the same family. Total of three in a 4-5 year span. Both families were devastated, but the family who had two sons off themselves are like 10X devastated. I can't even imagine. Yes indeed, it's important to take our kids after stuff happens, and crack those brains open and get them talking and processing. I don't know how much of that happened (or didn't happen) with these kids.
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