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About oremites

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    Member: Moves Upon the Waters

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  1. CFR on that. I don't think there are dozens of domestic terror incidents or an escalating right-wing violence problem. But I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if you can point me to information on this.
  2. Interesting quote from Planned Parenthood. I wonder if they have any other reasons to be against this bill? Planned Parenthood kept aborted babies alive to harvest organs: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/19/planned-parenthood-kept-aborted-babies-alive-to-ha/?fbclid=IwAR2ZUZ28f8QjnVbaj73COh1_p3BRbEWJy25gV-4aLUm1_USPNBwsvgLcKWg Court affirms videos of Planned Parenthood dealing in baby parts weren't deceptively edited: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/court-affirms-media-was-wrong-those-videos-of-planned-parenthood-dealing-in-baby-parts-werent-deceptively-edited
  3. Wonderful story. Thank you for sharing it.
  4. Could Elder Bednar have really foreseen that President Nelson would outlive President Monson (who was 3 years younger) and that he would be in such good health in his 90's that he would be a vigorous "agent of change"? Most people in their 90's have barely enough energy to get up from in front of the TV and get to the bathroom in time (I'm approaching the age where I can say that from personal experience).
  5. When I look at all that happened to Joseph Smith between when he first learned of the plates and when he started translating what we have now as The Book of Mormon, I think the whole acquiring the plates story is of vast importance to Joseph's growth as a prophet. For those around him, the plates were important in establishing their faith and interest in the work. And the story of the plates is important in the world today. Among other things, would we have the Three and Eight Witnesses and what would they have witnessed? It could be the translating part was the least important aspect of Joseph Smith getting the plates.
  6. Another thing to keep in mind when dealing with quotes like this is the law of witnesses. God makes clear in the scriptures that he will send multiple witnesses to establish his word. For example, this part is pretty clearly the doctrine of the church -- "And no one can obtain God's authority from reading the Bible or from just a desire to serve the Lord, no matter how pure his motives." I can think of multiple sources to back that up. The first sentence about blasphemers should not be treated as doctrine if you can't find any other sources that also teach it. If you base LDS doctrine on single quotes from one Apostle or Prophet only, you can come up with some pretty wild stuff.
  7. Don't let the religious issue cause bad feelings between you and your family. You can still have a good relationship with them even if their attitude about the church never softens. It may be best to just not discuss the church at this time. Given time, they'll see that it is only helping you to become a better person than you already are and not some brainwashed cultist. You should think about any advice given, but go to the Lord in prayer to find out what you should do. He knows you and your family better than any of us.
  8. He was talking about the morality of smoking pot. The Time article he quoted was about that, not about legalization. Though there were people pushing for legalization at that time, it was not a big issue. Why would he be talking about "a vote for legalization" when it wasn't even a voting issue back then? I think we're going to have to just agree to disagree on this one. That is, you're welcome to the last word because I'm out for the day. Thanks for the discussion.
  9. I appreciate your additional comments, but I don't think you can link the "encouraging the defilement of men" comment to the legalization question in any way. If it would help, imagine President Kimball adding this to his comments above - "To be clear, I'm only speaking about the recreational use of marijuana and not addressing the issue of legalization or medicinal use." He may or may not have thought that legalization would equate to the "defilement" but we don't know that. Yes, leaders attitudes change over time, but this is not an example of it. Would church leaders today say that the recreational use of marijuana is OK? You can be for the legalization of marijuana (even for recreational use) as a matter of liberty and not feel rebuked by President Kimball as "encouraging the defilement of men" because that's not what he was talking about.
  10. When Spencer W. Kimball talked about that in conference, everyone would have understood him to mean the recreational use of marijuana. Remember this was 1971. Marijuana was a recreational drug and the idea of it being medicinal was only on the radar of very few people. Here's a more complete quote from the Time article he quoted: "Many churchmen are reluctant to give a definite yes or no to marijuana, on the grounds that the medical evidence as to its harmfulness is incomplete." In other words, they weren't saying it might be OK for medicinal use. They were saying they don't know if recreational use is really that bad. Context matters, including the context of the times and how the people then would have understood his point. I don't think there's any conflict between what he said then and what leaders are saying now.
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