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juliann

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About juliann

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  1. Society was anything but “free.” It was a time of rife racism and misogyny. The things we thought were so open minded and progressive make me wince now. Go back and watch some of the shows. It brought the so called sexual revolution but that was no gift to women. It was an exciting time, however. I lived in San Francisco as Haight Ashbury was on the decline. It was great fun and influenced clothing, music, language, etc. However, the hippie movement was not admired by most and influential members went right back into society to become rich.
  2. I have to agree. Ongoing justification of the destruction I saw in the 80s, despite everything that has been produced against it, is making this thread very uncomfortable. I can only ask why....why join this thinking when there is so very, very little to support it, along with proof of fabricated evidence.
  3. Abulafia, that you would call the mass hysteria of the 80s a “scare” tells me you do not know much about it. You were in England so you wouldn’t be expected to. I and others here are telling you that you are not understanding the scope of this awful period where so many innocents were persecuted and imprisoned. I highly recommend, in fact I think you must, find the tapes of what the therapy was. I assume the McMartin case would be online. Like I said before, these were televised with a running commentary pointing out how the children were led and even badgered into saying what the therapist wanted. As you are seeing it is very hard for those who did live through this to take your objections seriously without a knowledge of how this all happened. I am also finding your reliance on a second hand account of the biggest liar of the bunch implicating someone downright odd.
  4. juliann

    Women's Session

    No discussion would be complete without the now familiar life is a pizza pie philosophy. If those who have less than I do get another slice of life, then I lose the extra slice I deserve more. Troll on.
  5. juliann

    Women's Session

    And there is always the conundrum of saying how much women need to be heard and then not set the standard at the most important meeting of the year.
  6. juliann

    Women's Session

    I find it strange. Mother does have a meaning which they can't avoid when they use the BTW, for those of you who aren't the real thing, we will say you are anyway approach. With the huge chunk of single women in the church now, it would be reassuring if leaders talked to them as individuals who can have lives full of accomplishment and worth even if childless or unmarried. I agree that the problem only exists when so many women are essentially excluded from counsel. But we have another full day with a lot more counsel coming up.
  7. The reason the McMartin case is seared into the minds of CA who were inundated with it is because there were videotapes. After it all fell apart, those videos were taken apart, piece by piece, and it was horrifying how those children were given ideas then guided into saying it themselves, sometimes to the point of badgering. That is why I will never give this any credence, I have seen how it is done. Abulafia, I've seen you summarize more than once by insisting there was abuse as if that means everyone who was named was a part of it. Of course they were abused. Of course there is medical evidence. But what I did see about surgery said that it was the step father who caused it with a pencil as punishment. What does this have to do with anyone else? What happened in the McMartin case is the stories got wilder and crazier to the point it became unbelievable. That seems to be what is happening here.
  8. Awful, true....but was he ever charged or convicted? Did he confess to leaders? I'm not sure why a leader or two in a local congregation is more responsible than the police and I don't say that to say both aren't responsible. An excommunication would be meaningless to any future non-Mormon victims, a conviction would be far more useful. Also, the second wife knew, she was even informed by the first wife, but chose to risk it. With that mindset, I'm wondering why church discipline, without a conviction, wouldn't have just been more false accusations for her.
  9. That is way too sketchy given the source and then the hearsay.
  10. Thanks for the info, I've had an extraordinarily busy month and can't spend time on this. There is a copy of this letter, right? There are all kinds of what should have been done, but it looks like to me the perp was never caught. My understanding of church discipline is that without a confession, there does need to be a legal verdict. Now, anyway. But there should have been more support for this family, obviously. So I take it that the complaint is that Elder Nelson knew his daughter was a pedophile but protected her by not punishing this guy? I hope members are becoming more educated that church standing doesn't mean much when it comes to scammers and criminals, I had to learn the hard way.
  11. How did this turn into a JS court case??
  12. juliann

    SL Tribune Suspends Robert Kirby

    Lets not go down the blame the victim with speculation path. This is about him and those like him not her. The problem with ingesting things is that you cannot trust what some men will put in it. Further, I don’t see how publicizing this would solve what you mention. I didn’t even know Kirby was at Sunstone prior to this. I don’t hear much about Sunstone anymore at all aside from announcements it is going to happen. Remember that throwaway phrase, there have been other complaints. It’s not about her.
  13. juliann

    SL Tribune Suspends Robert Kirby

    Kirby is a celebrity of sorts which means they weren't on equal footing. I think the key phrase from the Trib was that there had been other complaints. Apparently, this woman had the social media presence to make it public. Which doesn't say much for the Trib, but hey, he is probably a big money maker for them. I have two take aways from this. There has been a growing movement against sexist progressive/former Mormon men who use feminist causes for their own benefit while still holding the same views on women. The first excuses I saw were that they had learned it when Mormon. Uh huh. But that seems to have gone by the wayside in order to take them on directly. Second, it is too early to expect this but at some point women who are well educated in this problem have to start standing up to these guys when it is feasible to do so. I totally understand her reaction. Everyone has had situations where they were so stunned that they didn't react normally. No matter how often we run into situations like these, they are rarely the same and we tend to react as she described. (I do think ingesting something was a bit much, though, but I wasn't there.) Women will almost always try to defuse and get along with men who have power or standing like this jerk. It is the safest thing to do, especially when she has to go on stage with him. Had he not humiliated her publicly, he likely wouldn't find himself in this situation because she would have let it go. So I hope the MeToo movement spends as much time in training women to be ready for these situations as they do in calling out the offenders.
  14. I think you missed this "According to Ron Leavitt, what she reported was not a rape or attempted rape, but that Bishop showed her pornography. Still extremely serious, but probably not criminal." At least in this forum, I haven't see a whole lot of people who think there was no sexual abuse in some form. This is what happens when events are analyized detail by detail as would happen in a court. Self serving narratives quickly break down. And I suspect that is what will happen at a trial. Which again makes me wonder about the future of women's groups who refuse to engage in any thinking beyond the enforced narrative. They should be the first to do this careful analysis on all matters that they use a standard bearer for crimes against women.
  15. juliann

    Need advice

    It sounds like you have it handled. Bless your wife for being so concerned and caring. When it comes down to it, however, aside from counseling with you, she has little to no standing when it comes to the relationship between a daughter and her mother. I can't imagine how hard that must be when she is a caretaker but it is part of the price of step parenting.
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