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Michael Sanders

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About Michael Sanders

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    Member: Moves Upon the Waters

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  1. Latter end of the latter-days?

    I recognize that even the prophets and apostles declared that the end was soon at hand in their respective dispensations of labor (Paul comes to mind). And even the men of the restoration believed that God would soon rapt up the scene in their day. And while we may not know the day nor the hour, we are called to be discerning of the times we live in - given it is fairly easy to see doom and gloom on the world's scene in about every generation. But if we look to the prophecies, particularly the allegory of Zenos in Jacob - we see the fulfillment of many of those descriptions in the early restoration movement - particularly in the work of Joseph. The Lord of the Vineyard declares that it is the "last time" that I will nourish my vineyard (Jacob 5:62-72) for the "end is nigh at hand". Now I recognize a phrase like "nigh at hand" can mean a long period of time, but when coupled with latter day revelation like "For behold, the field is white already to harvest; and it is the eleventh hour, and the last time that I shall call laborers into my vineyard" D&C 33:3 This was in 1830. What does the "eleventh hour" refer to?
  2. Purpose of HomeTeaching

    Maybe you should gather? Unless you've been commanded to tarry, of course
  3. How about starting in the Book of Acts - several accounts found there that support priesthood calls via the holy ghost to authorized servants, degrees of priesthood authority (some can baptize with water, but not confer the holy ghost), priesthood structures over local church assemblies with higher priesthood over the church abroad. Again, you just have to know what you are looking for and read it with the right lens!!! Several proof texts that square quite nicely with latter-day revelation claims. Mike
  4. Who is the One Mighty Among Them (2 Nephi 3:24)?

    Only one problem - the one who rises from among them must be after the one who brings forth the book. Joseph is the choice seer who brought forth the book, and that work will ultimately cause some of the descendants of JosephL to "hearken unto" those works (i.e. the book [of Mormon]). The one mighty will rise from among this group. So it must be after the work of Joseph Smith is complete - thus it cannot be Mormon. What evidence do you have that his abridgement caused any great conversions among the seed of JosephL? That they even had access to it? Knew of its contents? The prophecy clearly says that they one mighty will arise after the coming forth of the book [of Mormon]? What book do you think is being referenced here, since you already have agreed that Joseph is the choice seer? Mike Sanders
  5. I don't think I'd quite go that far - the first vision in the grove, the coming forth of the Book of Mormon through the choice seer, restoration of priesthood keys and salvific ordinances, the notion of continuing revelation, talk of angels visiting men on earth, the regathering of the house of Israel, and all the events leading up to the Kirtland endowments where quite "different" and unique for that milieu in the burned over district, thus the great persecutions that visited the saints among other reasons. Mike
  6. 1841-1842 Red Brick Store Endowment of the Annointed Quorum Masonry Plural Marriage Book of Abraham John C. Bennet Controversy A significant "trigger year where mormonism struck out on a new course" in my humble opinion. Michael Sanders Book of Mormon Believer Independence, MO
  7. Identifying the choice seer

    Perhaps you can enlighten us by demonstrating what staged events in Joseph's life compare favorably with the actual words of the prophecy that could rightly be considered as fulfillments orchestrated by him or others. Particularly events that predate the publication of the Book of Mormon in 1830 that would fit with your narrative. Mike
  8. Identifying the choice seer

    I'm not referencing "the one mighty and strong" Joseph prophesied concerning in his November 27, 1832 letter to W.W. Phelps nor the man like unto Moses referenced in the D&C who plays a role in the redemption of Zion. I'm referring to two distinct figures mentioned in Lehi's blessing to his son Joseph. The first is the choice seer and the second is another, mentioned near the end: "And there shall raise up one mighty among them [little Joseph's seed] which shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, With exceeding faith to work mighty wonders and do that which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel and unto the seed of thy brethren." - 2 Nephi Hence my designation "one mighty" is taken directly from Lehi's blessing to his son Joseph. I refer to him as little Joseph, "Behold thou art little." If you've accurately depicted Spencer W. Kimball's view of the choice seer prophecy, then he appears to be making the same error David Whitmer made in his Address. Again, Gideon and Samuel the Lamanite are types for this servant. Mike
  9. Identifying the choice seer

    The choice seer and the "one mighty" from the seed of little Joseph are two different figures.. The former's work has been verified in the life of Joseph Smith, the latter is apparently yet to come. Joseph's [son of Lehi] seed shall "hearken unto the words of the book" and apparently after that shall arise "one mighty" from among them. The choice seer brings forth the book [of Mormon] that eventually converts this individual at a later time. This is the same confused reading that David Whitmer put forth in his Address to All Believers trying to diminsh the fact that Joseph was the choice seer. He and others since him have tried to say the choice seer was still yet to come. In this, they missed the prophetic marks that were fulfilled in the life and ministry of Joseph Smith. Remember, the choice seer's role in bringing forth a book that converts and restores the house of Israel. The exploits of the "one mighty" prophesied to come from the loins of little Joseph have not yet come to pass, although I believe that Gideon "a mighty man of valor" who is of the tribe of Manasseh serves as a type for this role in delivering Israel from its latter-day Midianite oppressors. Mike
  10. Who is the Marred Servant?

    Robert, The hero motif - thanks for the reference, I found it online here. Mike
  11. Who is the Marred Servant?

    Israel - yes good catch, should have been included in my poll. So in your opinion is it Israel or do we look for another? I understand that types can have multiple fulfillments and do enjoy exploring typology. But speculation abounds and trying to place these individuals in history without "looking beyond the mark" can prove difficult. For example, seeing how Joesph Smith literally fulfilled all the markers and identifiers of the Choice Seer prophecy during his life is truly amazing to behold. But there are many still looking for the choice seer when his work has been completed. I'm trying to identify the prophetic markers concerning the various ministries these figures perform, so as to avoid "looking beyond" how Christ literally fulfilled some of these things. In Zenos's parable ot the olive tree it seems fairly evident to me that the "servant" who co-labors with the lord of the vineyard is Christ.. Other interpret it differently.. Thanks for your thoughts. Mike
  12. Who is the Marred Servant?

    Another paper which mentions some of the end-time servants is Two Last-Days Servants for the Remnant of Jacob Mike
  13. Who is the Marred Servant?

    I don't know the answer - it has been speculated to be any number of individuals or the Book of Mormon.. I'm interested in eschatological studies and weighing the arguments of who these latter-day figures might be. The scriptures mention several end time servants who are mighty and strong who participate in last days work of fulfilling the prophecies. Zion is to be redeemed by a man like unto Moses according to the scriptures. Lehi's blessing of little Joseph talks about one who would come of his seed and do a mighty work apparently from Manasseh. Joseph gave an inspired interpretation of Isaiah 11 who Moroni said was about to come to pass which talks about a servant of Christ on whom is lais much power. Joseph prophesied about "one mighty and strong" who would do certain things. Interpretations of who these figures are many - in fact, many have claimed to be them.. Joseph also spoke of one who would come after him named David who would do a great work.. We have the work of the choice seer mentioned in 2 Nephi that refers to Joseph Smith. Many believe that Christ is the "one mighty" like unto Moses. Some think it is a mortal servant in the hands of Christ. I'm interested in the learned opinions of other about these individuals. Mike
  14. Who is the Marred Servant?

    Avraham Gileadi understands this latter-day figure as a mortal servant who will serve as a proxy and deliver the covenant people. Typologically in a role similar to Hezekiah or King David - thus the term "Davidic Servant" or "Davidic King". A review of his basic premise and his interpretation of Isaiah can be read here and here. Mike
  15. Who is the Marred Servant?

    This article posits that the "marred servant" is actually the Book of Mormon personified instead of an actual individual. See "Christ's Interpretation of Isaiah 52's 'My Servant' in 3 Nephi," Gaye Strathern and Jacob Moody, Journal of The Book of Mormon and Other Restoration Scripture 18/1 (2009) pp. 4-15. Christ alludes to this text while teaching the Nephites during his visitation as recorded in 3 Nephi. Mike
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