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About stemelbow

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    Creates Beasts Of The Earth

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  1. Prop 8

    The whole prop 8 episode for the Church was an embarrassing one. They were squarely defeated in the end, and all it did was expose the bigotry of the church leaders, and subsequently many members who followed without thought. I think most members want to be kinder and more thoughtful to others, though. I think most members want to at least come off as loving and supportive rather than upset while trying to keep people down. BUt a lot of members still see the defeat of the Church on this as a clear sign of the devil's attempted takeover in the world. I'm sure we'll see upset members for the next generation or so, or until the leaders turnover enough to defeat the attitude of bigotry that remains from the older generations and generations past.
  2. I think that's been the whole point. The priesthood is unnecessary to heal "Don't need the priesthood". Some have been arguing against that for some reason. Sadly for your point though, D&C 46 in context is assuming "every man" (leaving out women of course" is in reference to men who are part of the gospel. It doesn't include "non-believers" as they've been referred to here. If it does, can you show that by the context of the phrases you quoted?
  3. So it seems you agree with me, priesthood blessings may not bring any power to heal at all. Great.
  4. I don't think there's any reason to take Noah's story so literally. It's most likely a mythical story involving Noah, centuries after the dates estimated for NOah's life. One of the larger mistakes with the Bible, people seem to make, is to take it so literally.
  5. Can you help explain how the biblical passage in Matthew, even including the other alluded to passages, applies to all of those who have ever lived? Thanks. It's interesting that your view of "the majority reject it" is being brought up here when the discussion was about God not caring what "non-believers" think of his commandments. Which commandments? Do non-believers not love one another? Or are you speaking to things specific to the LDS Church? I'm sad to think members might think God doesn't care what "non-believers" think about his commandments, if they are important. That seems like a pretty sad view of God, but certainly we each have our own special view of God.
  6. Hey Bluebell, I just wanted to point out since it appears CB was taken out of the thread for disagreeing, he indicated that Mormons were on the bottom of the list of those who are Christian ("the Mormon church is the least liked among all Christian churches in America according to Pew study."). That's not the middle, as you allege. It seems obvious you have spoken past his point to argue that since Mormons got a score in the middle of 1-100 that they are not the bottom of the list but are in the middle. I think he gets that the conclusion reached that those who are familiar with others also view the group more favorably. But that was really beside his point. I know buttin' in and trying to help disagreements often doesn't help, but I'm trying.
  7. huh? I like that story. I can also agree it happened as described. My point is that same story or something like it has happened far more times without a priesthood blessing than with it. I can say that seriously because the Church is so tiny in the world--priesthood is hardly anywhere and yet these miraculous healings are happening with or without the priesthood. So while you say it's "very clear" that the priesthood did it, I don't think you are taking the claims of others seriously. THe added element here is doctors and other medical professionals can be wrong. I think you are forgetting all those blessings that came, miraculous as they were or seemed to be, without Jesus in the mind of anyone involved at all. When you say faith in the Lord alone results in the healings, then you forget all the non-religionist, muslim, sihk etc healings. I mean no offense, but you're view and others who proudly proclaim the priesthood, and faith in the Lord as the keys, are myopic and don't seem able to listen or consider others.
  8. As much as I can see, most agree that far more of the magical type of healings (unexplained on a medical level healings) happen without the priesthood than with it. Every story that includes a blessing by the priesthood wherein someone is magically healed, there are likely 1,000 similar stories wherein no priesthood blessing was given. One must ask, and has to absolute silence at this point in this thread, it seems to me, if at, likely, the same rate of healing, how are priesthood blessings more effective, more powerful when they do not show any better results? It's curious that most seem to think someone could be magically healed without a priesthood blessing just as one could be magically healed with one. If so, what's the benefit of a priesthood blessing? It seems to me the one benefit that's been mentioned, if you are LDS than the benefit is an extra dose of comfort. If you are not LDS comfort can come in other ways, I suppose. Also, for all the magical healings with a priesthood blessing that have been told, not only are there 1,000 stories of magical healings without priesthood in the world, there are also stories where a blessing was given, someone was blessed to be healed and did not get healed. I'm just curious how people explain this stuff if they think priesthood brings special power to a blessing? D&C 46 doesn't explain this, as I see it. If it does please explain Thanks.
  9. lol. my sentiments exactly. Once I stopped and wondered why we were all striving for eternal boredom and endless haughtiness, I realized, I guess I'm one of those lesser telestial or terrestrial souls. Can't really change that, might as well look forward to it with glee and make a heaven out of the hells with whoever is lesser like me.
  10. Well, my man, you should be prophet, because such explicit claims to speak to God never comes from our fearless leaders--unless you equate the still small voice or strong internal impressions as God saying so. If so, then meh...Hinckley told us that wasn't really a voice of any kind so it wasn't God speaking to you/him/us. Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, San Francisco Chronicle, Sunday Interview, April 13, 1997, by Don Lattin
  11. I think that's a backwards take of what HappyJack had said, sure. Faith healings and healings by priesthood blessings can be two different things. Anyone can be healed in a "miraculous" way whether priesthood is involved or not. It seems to me he's wondering specifically whether priesthood blessings bring any added healing power. I think it's a good wonder, since every single claimed priesthood blessing healing has also happened for those without priesthood being involved--without Christianity in consideration. Is it priesthood, faith, happenstance? Will we really ever know. The exclusive claim that priesthood blessings heal, or there is greater power in priesthood blessings than anything else, seems empty at this point. That's not to poo poo priesthood or the blessings, for surely they offer if nothing else great comfort. That also leaves open the possibility that any given priesthood blessing does offer something of a power to heal. It just takes reality into account. Now, I hate to speak as if I'm happyjack and I could be all wrong. If so, he can correct and I apologize for take a few minutes to respond on this interesting topic.
  12. Or you did it in hopes to please him, but failed to so please him. I hate to throw doubt into you, but I doubt it'd stick with you anywho. I'm just saying he might have had you doing something more useful for those couple of years if you'd but listen. But as it turned out you were trained in some way to think walking through freezing rain hoping someone would listen was what he wanted of you. And felt strongly about it. Hey, i'm not hating. I did the same, although our weather extremes went from frozen to what I considered unbearably hot. My wife thinks I got lucky (and in more ways than I, I'd agree) though cause she went through 1.5 years of sweating with no relief seeing as most buildings had no AC.
  13. Surely living by faith might mean we simply cannot be sure, right? Interesting take, The Nehor. you're wrong, but interesting nonetheless.
  14. Its interesting in context to consider Matthew was written at a time when Christians (which they likely weren't called at this point) were such an extreme, misunderstood, and perhaps even persecuted minority, but within a few short centuries (if centuries could be considered short), they were a majority in the empire. It went from a very strait gate and narrow way, to a very wide gate and broad way. But with that said, I get that if the Bible speaks to all times and all people it is saying very few will believe in Christ at all. Then again, though, that brings up the question of what to make of Christianity generally. My question had asked, does the Bible speak to the world and its history on this front. Will there be times when accepting Christ is easier than at other times? Or in some locations it works but in others it does not? I do get a bit skeptical when people presume to speak for God like this. I'm not sure what you're talking about. But that's ok, it doesn't sound like it's what I'm after.
  15. The issue is, these types of miracles happen for those who receive priesthood blessings as well as those who don't. Also, miracles do not happen for those who get priesthood blessings and those who don't. Some may say the priesthood blessings that work, work because the giver and receiver had faith enough. While for those for whom the blessing did not work did not have faith enough. Sadly we can't measure that. What we can measure is anecdotal stories and call them data--how many people claim miraculous healings, often because a doctor said something opposite of what happened? How many of those received lds priesthood blessings? I'd guess an imaginably small percentage (like the in less than 1 percent range). in the cases above, was it priesthood that caused the miraculous sounding healings? If so, priesthood only accomplishes a very tiny amount of these miraculous sounding healings, so what other power is causing these healings? If something else is doing the majority of the work for the healings, then what good is the priesthood blessing?