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Daniel2

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About Daniel2

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    Culturally-Mormon Gay Dad
  • Birthday 01/01/1973

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    Utah

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  1. Ed Smart says he hasn’t been sexually unfaithful to his wife. The point that as far as we know, sex isn’t a factor in the Smart’s divorce has been repeatedly emphasized by numerous participants here. You’re always welcome to advocate for your beliefs about sex addiction, but they certainly seem off topic in this thread. New readers unfamiliar with our past conversations may not realize based on your comments above that we have discussed this topic numerous times before, and I am not ignorant of both your views and the alleged research and experiences you mention. I have studied much of the type of information you’ve proffered as evidence of your position and believe that the relief you and others have experienced has been correlated with some of the actions taken to relieve shame, but is still misdiagnosed as the a treatment for so-called “sex addiction.” That’s similar to how David Matheson, former “reparative therapist,” has since denounced the change aspects of that brand of therapy but still acknowledges that aspects of it were beneficial in that some of the processes helped men struggling against their homosexual attractions to decrease shame and self-loathing, this setting them up to paths of true healing. It’s always worth remembering that correlation is not the same thing as causation. All of this said, we are straying off topic, so this will be my last post on the matter in this thread. And again, your post doesn’t seem to be relevant in the Smart’s case.
  2. Can you even conceive that either party could be choosing to divorce for reasons that don’t include sex...?
  3. Something tells me you wouldn’t be as fiercely critical of a “covenant-breaking” woman who previously married her girlfriend, chose to adopt and raise babies together, yet ultimately divorced her wife after converting to Christianity.... Similarly, I imagine you wouldn’t be as critical of converts to the LDS Faith who break the covenants they made as members of their former religious Faiths to join Mormonism. If so, why do you think that is...? Perhaps I’m wrong, and you actually suggest gay couples who dissolve their martial vows and members of other Faith who break their sacred commitments are immoral covenant-breakers who lack integrity, as well.
  4. Since Mrs. Smart filed for the divorce, your words seem to imply she’s being irresponsible. What evidence is there that either Mr. or Mrs. Smart are being irresponsible in their actions?
  5. Part of wisdom and growth is recognizing when one has made irrational, unsustainable, and unhealthy covenants and promises that lead to self-destructive thoughts and behaviors and destabilize mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical health. Part of adulthood is putting away such childish things and making restitution as best as one is able for previous mistakes and unkept-yet-unrealistic promises. Part of compassion is learning to avoid judgment and condemnation, and instead learn to forgive others and one’s self when all of the above happen. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. One of my favorite songs, courtesy of John Denver: It’s in every one of us to be wise. Find your heart Open up both your eyes, We can all know everything without ever knowing why. It’s in every one of us By and by. It’s in every one of us I just remembered It’s like I been sleeping for years, I’m not awake as I can be, but my seeing’s better, I can see through the tears, I’ve been realizing that, I bought this ticket and watching only half of the show, There is scenery and lights man’s a cast of thousands, who all know what I know and it’s good that it’s so. It’s in every one of us to be wise. Find your heart Open up both your eyes, We can all know everything without ever knowing why. It’s in every one of us By and by.
  6. This is beautifully said, Calm. Thank you so much for sharing your insight.
  7. One of the most gentle, compassionate, and insightful perspectives of divorce that I have seen is from Helen M. Luke. It certainly seems to mirror at least some of the sentiments of Ed Smart’s letter to his family:
  8. I think those of us who have followed this thread understand your point as articulated above, as we understand it in context. I suspect, though, that if you polled most Latter-day Saints in casual conversation or especially in public (not-exclusively-LDS) settings, a large majority would disagree with the statement that “Latter-day Saints believe that all LDS divorces are the result of infidelity.” I’d expect that for those that would agree with it, in the very least, they’d be quick to explain they weren’t meaning to suggest that all LDS divorces are the result of adultery, and add the clarifying comments you did.
  9. What’s ironic is your focus entirely on the gay spouse without mentioning any of the straight spouse’s behaviors which may have contributed to the divorce itself. The woman I married was mentally and emotionally abusive to both myself and children; I’m not making this up, it was substantiated by Department of Child and Family Services and my court ordered therapists during our divorce process. The last two years before I left her she became physical (throwing things at me, hitting me with her fists, breaking down our bathroom door after I locked myself inside to try to get away from her, and ultimately threatening me with a kitchen knife as she was screaming at me, which was the last straw and caused me to leave and never go back). I endured 8 years of emotional hell at her hand.... and the reason I endured that long was the fear and guilt I took upon myself that if our marriage failed, it would be MY fault because I was attracted to men. I endured her abuse because a) my self-loathing self thought I deserved it, and b) I thought God would hold me accountable if I didn’t make my marriage work. After years of my dad having witnessed her behavior, at the time I told my parents I had finally left my wife, my own extremely-devout LDS and very anti-divorce father told me that there is no way he would have lasted 6 months, let alone 8 years. I made my own mistakes and wasn’t perfect, but neither was I ever emotionally or physically abusive. I also was open to and did actively participate in individual and couples therapy; my ex-wife refused to engage with either, and instead blamed me for all the problems in our marriage. My experience is clearly not Ed and Lois Smart’s.... but I wanted to share because many here are acting as if the gay spouse in these scenarios is the culpable sinner. Marriage and divorce are never black and white.
  10. Historically, you’ve always raised this question in gay-related threads, so it’s not surprising you do so, here. What troubling, though, is that Mr. Smart said nothing of sex being his motivation for coming out at all, yet you still continue to imply being gay is tied to sex addiction. It’s also worth continuing to repeat that the concept of “sex addiction” is highly controversial and isn’t actually recognized by most major medical/psychological/psychiatric organizations.
  11. This is a HUGE leap in logic, and recklessly untrue. I personally know many gay men who never expressed or acted up on their sexuality who have left the church; some were singles, others were in a mixed-marriage.
  12. To be clear, then, it naturally follows that from your view, all LDS divorces are the result of infidelity.
  13. Yes, faithfulness is loyalty and unfaithfulness is disloyalty according to the dictionary, but context is key, and even though a word technically meets a given definition doesn’t mean the context doesn’t alter which definition is inferred and understood by the majority of who’s following the discussion. I appreciate Julie’s posts asking for clarification from you so your views and use of the word are better understood by all.
  14. CFR that anyone is “celebrating” what the Smart family is going through.
  15. I don’t see anyone affirming infidelity, or anything close to suggesting infidelity is noble. Most of the comments I see acknowledge the painful challenges facing all members of this family, as well as sympathy for what they are going through. What I do believe is noble is having the courage to be forthright about and apologizing for years of dishonesty to ones family, as well as humbly and candidly striving to live the tenants of “the serenity prayer” (to accept the things we cannot change, to change the things we can, and to achieve the wisdom of knowing the difference). Many gay spouses have great empathy for their straight spouses and do all we can to take their needs, thoughts, and feelings into consideration as we try to figure out how to make restitution for our mistakes. Finally, I do find it life-affirming to identify and move away from harmful behaviors, attitudes, beliefs, and environments that inspire self-destructive behaviors, wherever they be found (in either straight and gay-affirming circles or in exclusively straight-affirming circumstances).
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