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Wiki Wonka

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About Wiki Wonka

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    FairMormon Wiki wrangler

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  1. Actually, as a early morning seminary teacher myself, I feel that the challenge will most likely be with the Sunday School to not be "boring" The way I see it, I have twenty weekdays per month to teach, discuss, present videos and do whatever activities I want to on the current topic/scripture. On the other hand, Sunday school has two days per month to come up with something interesting on the same topic/scripture.
  2. I check this board probably once a month at best, but most of the time I don't really think about it, and even then I usually just skim the subject headings and move on. To my knowledge, Calm is the ONLY person affiliated with FairMormon that consistently participates on this board.
  3. I've never seen any ads from FairMormon posted to the ex-Mormon subreddit. I have only seen them there when people on that subreddit reposted them from somewhere else that they saw them.
  4. OK, I think I've found the exact portion of the interview that correlates with the claim made by DBMormon above: This is from Podcast #6, starting at timepoint 49:18: Regarding the Church "teaching us to harm others" and "prop 8, miracle of forgiveness and LGBT policies", this was the response: 49:18: [Jim] No, I’m not necessarily holding a middle ground. I’m trying to push back very hard, because I’ve never, ever, in my entire lifetime in the Church, had an experience in the Church where I have been taught to be unkind. 49:33: [Jim] All right, you got me there I suppose, because I disagree with Prop 8. I wasn’t in California at the time. That’s kind of a weak excuse. You make a good point there with Prop 8. Well, even then though, the issue in terms of kindness. The Church is trying to hold kind of middle ground. I actually just wrote an article about this for the Utah Bee. I don’t know if they’re going to publish it or not. 51:00: [Jim] No, I’d have to agree with that. I’d have to agree with that, particularly on this issue. So this article that I’ve just written, I end up quoting Spencer W. Kimball from the Miracle of Forgiveness, which, heaven bless Spencer W. Kimball, is a terrible book, and he talks about homosexuals as perverts who are engaged in an ugly sin repugnant to those who find no temptation in it, and the glorious thing to remember is that it is curable. And the summation that has haunted me for decades is that he says, “Therefore to those who say that this practice or any other evil is incurable, I respond, ‘How can you say that the door cannot be opened until your knuckles are bloody, til your head is bruised, till your muscles are sore. It can be done.’” And I’ve thought about that and can imagine thousands upon thousands of vulnerable and terrified LGBT teenagers pounding against the door until their hands, heads and muscles are bruised and bloody beyond recognition. And the door remains firmly shut. So, that’s a very strong argument that you are making there in that regard. But I look at the Church, and the Church is now moved to a position that is preferable to then Elder Kimball’s position (The Miracle of Forgiveness). But, Elder Kimball’s position had the benefit of being logically consistent with itself. After all, if homosexuals are just voluntary perverts...
  5. I've been listening to Jim's comments in order to see what relates to DBMormon's claims - specifically the one listed above. In Podcast #6, timestamp 43:27, Jim is responding to a request that he acknowledge that the Church is not "ahead of the curve" with respect to the world, because the world is not "lost and fallen" as the Church teaches. Here is Jim's response with the corresponding timestamp (for anyone who wants to double check that I got the quote right). I may locate a better, more direct response as I listen further. (Emphasis is mine) 43:27 [Jim] No, I’m not going to acknowledge that, because I don’t think that’s true in the broadest of senses. You’re talking about very specific kinds of social concerns, but I think on the broader level in terms of individual kindness, in terms of concern for other human beings, I think the Church is way, way ahead of the curve, with regard to where the world is. I think that’s absolutely true. At the same time, I am happy to acknowledge, for instance, that there are good people outside of the Church. And, there are people outside of the Church who are better than people who are inside of the Church, and I remember growing up talking to my father about that, and I remember complaining about so-and-so, this member of the Church, that they really bother me and, you know, shouldn’t the Church be better than this. And my father’s response was, “OK, look at so-and-so. Would that person be a better person if they were not a member of the Church?” And I hadn’t thought of it in those terms, and that came back to the President Hinckley’s statement I think, or maybe its President Benson, who said, “Church makes bad men good and good men better.” And I guess that’s a sexist construction, because he probably should say “bad people good, and good people better.” But I think the Church is a tremendous benefit in people’s lives, and I think the Church creates a sense of community and creates an area of kindness and concern that you do not see in the world at large...that you don’t have that kind of community outside of the Church, in the way I that that the Church does that better than almost anybody else. That is not to say that there are not other communities, that there are not other religions, that there are not other people that are abiding by those kinds of principles, but I’m not going to concede, “No, the world is not lost and fallen,” because I think the world is lost and fallen, and I think we are coming out of a lost and fallen world in the Church and at the same time bringing our sins, our weaknesses and all of those things into the Church. And so those same elements find their way into the Church because we are a lost and fallen race of people. So, I...you know...saying, “OK, the Church has gotten things wrong,” and using that as an indictment of the entire Church, and saying, “See, the Church is worse than the rest of the world,” I don’t think that’s a fair comparison to make. I think what’s a fair comparison to make is that the Church is capable of making mistakes because it is filled with imperfect people, but the Church is doing all it can to lift up the lives of its members, and I think in that regard that it is doing a very good job of doing this.
  6. I also served my mission in South America in 1979-1980 (Colombia Bogota). I once received a letter from my mom one week that said, "Grandpa is doing much better now." I had no idea what had happened to Grandpa, until I received the letter three days later that had been mailed first that stated that he had suffered a heart attack. Such was the way of the Colombian mail system. And then there was the time that I had to call home because of a medical issue. It cost $50 to talk for about 10 minutes. There were no calls home for Mother's Day or Christmas back in those days.
  7. Bill: 2. They are completely wrong on the LGBT issue Jim: They are not completely wrong on the LGBT issue...
  8. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but the "money line" in the transcript appears to be incomplete and broken up from the remainder. If you take out "BR: Yeah" and notice that the next paragraph starts with a sentence fragment, "That we're all here to protect...", then it makes more sense: --------------------- "(1:38:21) HC (money line): Yeah, I think this has been an opportunity to understand your point of view. I think that the purpose of the Council, as was mentioned at the first, now your integrity is not in question at all. It isn't. The purpose of this council is to look at protecting the integrity of the church. And you mentioned that as well. And uh, but I believe now, that pretty much as you outlined every step of your presentation, If you take all that, there is no integrity left in the church. And so that's a problem. There are a lot of nuances there. You are a very intelligent man. You've looked at sources as you've said on both sides, all the information there. It leaves the church with zero integrity. BR: Yeah HC: That we're all here to protect, and I think it's important, critical, in fact. Well. It's, and I think Brother Reel, as a member of this church, understands. You know, member of the church. And you're still in a better position to try to persuade other people to, to. Documents that you have, but also you've been critical. I think there's gonna be a discussion on all sides. ------------------------- So perhaps it reads like this: ---------------------------- "There are a lot of nuances there. You are a very intelligent man. You've looked at sources as you've said on both sides, all the information there. It leaves the church with zero integrity, that we're all here to protect, and I think it's important, critical, in fact."
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