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Bill “Papa” Lee

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About Bill “Papa” Lee

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    Member: Moves Upon the Waters
  • Birthday 05/31/1957

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  • Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
  • Interests
    Theology, History and Poetry

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  1. Sometimes, I think some mods worry about where a thread may end up. About a month or two ago, I did something I don’t get to do often. I sat up at my dinning room table, and created a thread. Because of my back problems, it is very difficult to post paragraphs of comments or opinions. So, I wrote, re-read, wrote more, re-read and wrote more, in an effort to make a defense of the Church, it’s policies concerning a few issues. I took great care in making sure that I did not post inflammatory remarks, or go to far left or to far right in my opinions. I even researched data, and drew from personal and other information an opinions. When I felt as if I was evenhanded in my approach, waiting until the next day, to read it again with fresh eyes, I posted. The thread was locked that day, without any replies. When it was closed, I did not receive a warning, I was not chastised for having submitted it, nothing happened, it just got closed. So, I guess the mod who closed it felt that it was not a topic that needed to be discussed. Someone might have complained, I am not sure. It was due to subject matter, as many thread weekly discuss the issue, so it remains a mystery to me. Someone did PM me, wanting to know what happened, but I did not know. But, I don’t have the burden of policing the board, so I will not judge. I wish I had saved the thread on my laptop, so I could go back and see it, or try to change parts of it, but I can’t. I seldom ever post on my laptop, it is just too taxing for me, sitting in straight back chairs.
  2. Odd, two reactions points for agreeing with my comment. Methinks, I must have upset some? 😪
  3. Could be, with any marriage other than our own, we are just spectators, and speculators, on the outside looking in.
  4. I agree, I think that was my argument, why get a divorce? I believe in the redemptive power of Jesus Christ, that he is able (as he did for the Nephites, or any righteous for that matter) to make any burdens become light, no matter the burden, no matter the struggle, he IS able. He can and will take upon him our burdens, and we can take up his yoke, with is easy. Far too often we believe that “our burdens” are too great, that God is unwilling, but this is not so. We cannot help our feelings, and there is no condemnation for having them, but we can choose our actions, this I believe. I fear that my words may be understood incorrectly, I love members of this family, and pray for all, and compassion for all, I pray this is what is coming through, if not my sincere apologies.
  5. I agree, but in this case, if his wife were willing to remain married, would not seem better to keep the family together? Of course, this is the big, what if? Does his wife wish to remain married, to preserve the family for eternity?
  6. Always, I pray things work out. I love hearing stories about your travels, and sort of live vicariously through them.
  7. No, I was reinforcing what he said. A person does not have to leave the Church over divorce, or simply for identifying as Gay. I was speaking only to the comment that he felt like there was no place for him in the Church. Pointing out the fact, that he could, and should stay. No, I do not believe that he was lying, and making the point for him to remain. Sorry if some other message came through, maybe I should do a reread, or someone could point out where I said he had been unfaithful to his wife.
  8. “He” has a wife, a decades long marriage, five children. I am not obsessed with anything concerning sex, I am standing back, looking at the collateral damage today, in the future, and the eternities. BTW, a wife that he says that “he loves, and always will love” , and that this is he says, “will bind them for or in the eternities”. His words not mine, but now that wife, his children, his grandchildren, and generations to come, will be affected for a short term (and the eternities) to the desire, “flesh and the heart”. We are not speaking of someone who married young, came out of the closet earlier on, where both married persons can move on to a long time, or lifetime fulfilling relationship. Sadly, as my comments reflected, that ship sailed decades ago. I understand that you and many others had marriages that lasted for a few years, and both realized that it would have to end. I am speaking from the experience of what a broken home is like, as the child and victim, of someone who wanted that “first kiss”, that “first thrill”, that “first love”, over and over again. In that decision, or the fact that, “he was not just a one woman man”, and the delusion that “God made home that way”, left nothing but heartache in his wake. In fact in led him into bigamy, leaving his legitimate family, homeless and destitute. Oddly enough, he spoke of these decisions, crouched in the language of Church membership, citing...”scripture study, fasting and prayer”, that led him to the decisions of deslove the family, leave the Church, and change his lifestyle. Oddly enough, after my bio-Father divorced my mother, we would go to his other family for his two weekends a month, each night he would read the scriptures out loud. Until of course when he had to flee the State for not paying child support. When my Father adopted us, he could not sign the papers fast enough, so he could return to the State, because he did have to pay it any longer. Of course when he got back, he got locked up again, because he had not payed the State the money he owed from before. As my reply pointed out, wife, children, FAMILY, must always come secondary to any desire, it is called being an adult. There is no need in trying to get inside my head, nor try to put me in a box so you can catalog me, I said clearly what I meant, and “sex” was the least of it all, I am talking about the betrayal of one’s family, over the needs of just one.
  9. I fear this may not be well received, but I feel I must speak the truth in these comments. I am a very close friend of one of the members of the extended “Smart Family”, 40+ years now. So my heart, my love, and compassion, goes out to the entire family. I know the horror that Elizabeth went through, and the the stress that the family went through. My first fear, is that Elizabeth who has become a spokeswoman for so many women, and doing so much for their cause, will now have too much of her time taken up with dealing with questions about her Father. She loves him greatly as she should, but this will put another sexual issue, into a already sexually charged issue, that the harsh will use to drown out the issue she speaks too. I pray that God will give her the strength to deal with both, and the “grace”, to champion the case she speaks for, and the pressure of what those in the media, who is seldom kind, and often crass. In addition, I pray that Brother Smart, has always honored his marital vows, as I am sure his wife has. If not, this might be why he says he does not see a place for himself in the Church. Neither divorce, nor just being Gay, is not a reason to leave the Church, unless he has been unfaithful to his wife. If he has not been unfaithful, then there is no reason for him to leave or be disciplined for any reason. When it comes to men, we all struggle with issues concerning sexual desires. For the heterosexuals, we all struggle with attraction to other women, it is just how we are wired. I have, and I am assured that all men have prayed and struggled with lustful thoughts, that flood our minds, at times. I have been married for 43+ years, and while serving in the military, I have had long separations from my wife and family. I have often prayed to Heavenly Father, during my marriage (especially when much younger) that he would just cause every other woman than my wife, to just be completely unattractive to me. In my eight years in the Army, I spent at least two or more years away from my wife. Many other married soldiers I served with, even some good men, gave into that temptation, men who tried, and sadly failed. Sad thing is, under the UMCJ, “Uniform Code of Military Justice”, adultry is a violation that can lead to “Court Marshal”. So, the Church is not the only organization that forbids such behavior, as adultery is not, I repeat, “is not”, a victimless crime. Such behavior by my biological father, is living proof that there are always victims, causing my family to be homeless for a time, lived in shack, until the waiting for public housing. Maybe due to my childhood, being unfaithful to one’s husband or wife, was simply never and option. Once I became a husband and a father, ALL THINGS”, became secondary. I became a Husband and Father on the same day, because my wife, already had a one year old daughter, due to a man (18) could not, would not, be faithful, and beat her. So when I said, “I Do”, I did put any and all desires on the back burner. Brother Smart, is a 64 year old Husband and Father, of five children. So (to me) that is the truth that should be his first and foremost concern. So vary often, many talk about “being true, being honest to one’s self”, that whatever people do, between “contenting adults”, is no one’s business. Having come from a broken home, but thankfully my Mother met and married a wonderful man, who gave us all his name. Besides my own personal experience of betrayal, as a Police Officer, I have seen up close and personal the tragedy that can and often does ruin many lives. I have seen the broken families, the shattered lives, and even the deaths, associated with persons who choose to make bad decisions, while giving in to their “desires”, leaving their families, and lives in shambles. I have even had to bury friends, and family as a result of placing “carnal desires”, above all else. I certainly don’t know what goes on in the lives of other people, and their marriages, but have so often been in the front or second row, to watch too many tragedies unfolding. I don’t know, I guess knowing members of Brother and Sister Smart’s Family, so closely, I am heartbroken for all, and devastated. I pray for them all, especially Brother Smart, but am I alone with the idea that Wife, Children, Grandchildren, should come before all else? Am I just too idealistic, to old to understand?
  10. I guess I should have said, when someone in the area is worthy or qualified.
  11. “Catwalks”, are used in construction all the time, usually to access the inaccessible above structural ceilings. Buildings such as Temples with their elaborate designs have them almost always to access lighting, HVAC equipment, and many other reasons. If you are speaking of one that is used in plain sight, could be anybody’s guess, unless overhead. Then probably for constant lighting changes, such as stage lighting. I have spent much of my life walking and using them for construction inspections for very beautiful architecture. If you ever enter a Celestial Room in the Temple, and in other places like larger Temples, the chandeliers located in the center of the room (sometimes more than one) have motorized wrenches to lower and raise them. Because of this there is probably catwalks above those ceilings.
  12. I only know that forced anything, almost always leads to a lot too, both anger and rebellion. This pendulum (a sharp one) which cuts both ways, leading, some (but only a few) into trying to respect the idea, but for the most part, it leads to backlash, as they tire and wait for the pendulum to comeback down, and cut the entire PC World, into sheds, as onlookers cheer and applause. Many in my generation, (and others) do not act well , “when and where to stand in line”. , who do not act well when, “told what to say, what not to say, and at times are given or get handed a script. We are just now beginning to see the difficulty, and the many problems, that come into play where any authority figure is warning adult what say, what to do, now telling us what words can be used, words that become one part script, one part warnings that may be, that if (whomever) does not play along, causing some who hold and has Government, but then they have too speak, and Public Speaking, the single most feared assignment, along all socially levels, who is trying to us another’s words.
  13. Not all are made for BYU, or other Colleges, but most in our Ward, and our Stake go on missions, some even find future husbands or wives there. A number of my friends served their missions here in Georgia, and came back here for work, and then married. One such marriage did not last for more than a few years, ended very badly. In our Ward we have some very strong marriages between members and non-members, some of whom spouses, come almost every Sunday, and are great guys, but don’t join. (Or have not yet) The internet has made it possible for some to meet other Latter-day Saints, Mormons. Although the Church has grown considerably, here in Georgia, it is still a much smaller pool of members compared to many Western States. Marriage being the great blessing it is, is still a different union where almost any difference can later become a serious stumbling block. Religion is much bigger factor when children enter the picture, often leading to serious disagreements, about how these children are to be raised and taught. It also becomes a more complicated time as both sets of grandparents, begin trying to teach their grandchildren their own beliefs, or many no belief at all. Over my 40 years, I have seen marriages that seemed very strong, until the disagreements of how children are to be raised comes into play. Anyway, three of my children married members, and were sealed in the Temple. Just my two cents worth, here in the sunny South.
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