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About bluebell

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  • Birthday 10/26/1976

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  1. Last Movie You Watched

    We watched two movies this weekend-The Circle and Only the Brave. The Circle was not a good movie. Well acted but the director and screen writers really missed the boat. The story makes no sense and the movie is not what the trailer portrays it to be (it's actually almost opposite of what the trailer portrays). Only the Brave is the true story of the Granite Mountain Hotshots (wild land firefighters) and was very good. It's a tragic story but worth seeing. It's very well acted and directed.
  2. Except as it applies to following the law, I don't see how financial transparency (or not) has moral implications either way.
  3. Elizabeth Smarts thoughts on forgiveness

    I think that too often we get confused with seeking forgiveness from God and granting forgiveness to others; too often we think the outcome is the same. The scriptures say that when when we are forgiven by God that He 'forgets' the offense and behaves towards us as if it never occurred and therefore we assume that for us to forgive another, that's what we need to do as well. That is not always what God asks us or wants us to do when we forgive another though. Sometimes that maybe the appropriate response but other times, it is not. When God forgives someone, it is not for His benefit but for theirs. When we forgive someone it is for our benefit, not their's. That is the difference that I feel like we often forget to take into account. The word might be the same, but the desired outcome is different and so how the word is applied in our lives is different also.
  4. If this increase is because more women are reporting assault that could have gotten them in trouble for breaking the honor code, maybe emphasis should be put on how actually keeping the honor code protects people from sexual assault.
  5. Modesty standards

    Ok, thanks for explaining your thoughts on it.
  6. Modesty standards

    Ok. So it sounds like you are saying (and please correct me if i'm wrong), that a woman is never responsible for the immoral thoughts of another no matter what she's wearing or what her intentions are. A woman is only responsible for intentionally inciting someone to act immorally. If I'm understanding you correctly, doesn't that mean that the clothes a woman chooses to wear is beside the issue because clothing cannot incite actions. The person wearing the clothing can, but the clothing itself does not have the ability to cause someone else to sin.
  7. Modesty standards

    I did ask. That's why I put a question mark after my statement and then even clarified further by saying "Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying". True, it was an implied question rather than out right stated, but i sincerely figured you, being a very intelligent person, would be able to interpret that without me being more clear. In the future, i will be careful to be more literal in my communications with you. Are you saying that if a person wears something and her intention is not to incite immoral thoughts, then she is not responsible for a man's immoral thoughts, regardless of how much skin she is showing?
  8. LDS Chapel to Become Jewish Synagogue *

    I know when i was serving in Santa Rosa CA in 1998 that one of the Jewish congregations used the LDS chapel across the street for their holy days. We tracted into a Jewish man who told us about it. He was very appreciative and I thought it was such a cool thing.
  9. Modesty standards

    So what you're saying is that if a man looks at a woman and has immoral thoughts caused by the way she was dressed, both he and she have sinned? (Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly).
  10. Modesty standards

    I think that some women do think that about dress and sexual assault (and men too) and I think that sometimes it's a subconscious way to feel in control. Kind of like "if i do all of this then i'll be safe or my loved ones will be safe" thing.
  11. Modesty standards

    And tank tops with thick sleeves were not considered immodest when i was in YWs in the 90s for unendowed girls. We even wore sleeves shirts on a temple trip once.
  12. Last Movie You Watched

    Good to know. I was wondering why it was rated R.
  13. Modesty standards

    This is a good example of the double standard that exists in our culture. YM playing basketball in only shorts would be akin to playing basket ball in their swimwear but as you said, your concern was not that the YM would be immodest, but that they would make someone uncomfortable, regardless of not being immodest. If a YW wanted to play basketball in swimwear she would be stopped at church for immodesty. Her playing in a swimsuit would be seen as sinful (immodestly is a sin) while a YM playing in a swimsuit (or the equivalent of), isn't. It's normal, like you said. So often in our culture women's clothes are considered immodest because they might impact a male in a negative way. This is what church leaders (well meaning church leaders who care deeply for the youth) teach girls about modesty: Normal but inappropriate sexual feelings in someone = woman dressed immodestly and woman dressed immodestly = woman sinning, therefore normal but inappropriate sexual feelings in someone = woman sinning. For men, immodesty in dress and their impact on others is not really connected, as your story shows. Normal but inappropriate sexual feelings in someone does not = man dressed immodestly and therefore men are not really taught to equate the sexual reactions of others to whether or not they themselves are sinning. I think this is one of the points that bsjkki is trying to make. Women shoulder a burden an unequal burden when it comes to modesty in dress and it's affect on others (and it doesn't have anything to do with women's fashions being less modest in general). It's difficult for girls to absorb the "normal but inappropriate sexual feelings in someone = I'm sinning" teaching in a healthy way because it's not a healthy thing to teach someone. It would affect my experience, but is my experience what determines what is acceptable to wear to pass the sacrament? In a ward of white nationals, would wearing a nazi tie be o.k. because no one would care? No, it still wouldn't be o.k. because the experience of the sacrament takers doesn't determine whether or not the boy was sinning by wearing the tie. But oftentimes the reaction of a male is what people use to determine whether or not a girl is being sinful in her clothing choices.
  14. I don't think they do either. I was speaking specifically about porn. Though some hollywood movies certainly come close sometimes to that label, I don't consider an R rated movie to be pornography in general. But I agree that Hollywood and it's portrayal of relationships between men and women is part of the problem (probably a large part). Most romantic comedies, for example, have beloved characters doing things that are rapey or stalker-ish when pursuing their dream guy or girl and the audience is taught to root for them, and that it's o.k. because the guy or girl is a really nice person and the pursued mate should love them, even if they don't realize it yet. I think that a lot of the inappropriate behavior that we hear about on the dating scene is caused by those kinds of movies.