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About CAS

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    Newbie: Without form, and void

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  1. I suppose I look at this differently than you, when something was going on that no one could help me with, I either went at it alone (which never worked) or I went to the Lord (which has never failed). But, that is just me. Has nothing to do with whether the Church is legit or not. Knowing that the Church is legit never came to me from other mortals, but I do understand that a lot of people find out that way.
  2. You just made me feel stronger, thanks.
  3. Since faith also means to have confidence I have to somewhat disagree. After what I have heard, seen, felt and lived over the last 45 years I have great confidence in the Church, and in my case more than any other. This is not the only Church I have been a member of nor is it the only Church or type of religion (Christian) I have considered and studied before joining, although I did not join this Church based on my reasoning or intellect.
  4. That is in no way representative of why I joined this organization. It had nothing to do with people and what they do at all.
  5. Well, I feel hesitant to share any of those but I will one. I joined the Church when I was 19 (1974). When I was 20 and serving in the Army in Germany I had been interviewed for and been approved to get my temple recommend and was planning on receiving my endowment in Switzerland. I was called into my Branch President's office and notified that I would not be receiving my recommend due to it had been decided that the brother who had been approved before me, on the same day, would be the last and that they were not sure when they would start approving recommends for servicemembers in the future. I did not receive my recommend at that time and in fact did not receive it until six years later when I was stateside in a civilian status. I did go inactive for a while after this incident, but the incident was not to blame for that IMO. I was extremely upset about this, but I never brought it up and I never complained, I just went on with my business and tried to not let it bother me. It was very difficult to look the other brother in the eye and not be angry and resentful, but I did my best. As far as my outlook on leadership went, I already knew that they were just men, as I am, and they were probably doing their best and I needed to think about things that edified me and not about whether I thought they had screwed up or not. If this was from the Lord, then I figured it was a test to see what I would do and think. It did not actually hurt me to have to wait and I did not have wedding plans at the time or I would have been able to get it. The fact that I did not have wedding plans was one of the reasons it was able to be withheld. I thought the decision was uninspired and showed a lack of leadership and care and for some reason was specifically aimed at me, but I don't actually know if those thoughts were correct. For one thing I thought, 'I have already been approved, what will it hurt to allow one more? There are no more currently after me.' I suppose this example will not be thought as being as difficult as others, but it was very difficult for a short period of time and being a new member I was somewhat anxious as to what I should expect in the future from leadership at the local level. That all being said, I should also say that this incident, and many others, never once impacted my knowledge and my testimony that this Church is the legitimate Church and that is because God had verified it to me by His Holy Spirit and He still does. I am unwilling to deny or disbelieve that verification. Even when I was inactive I knew the Church was legitimate and that I was in error.
  6. I have never felt betrayed by the Church and I have been treated like, you know what, by some leaders who had very low leadership skill. This is probably because I consider the Church to be the Lord's, completely, and some of His servants to be in the process of learning how to act or treat people. There has never been a time when I blamed the Church for what certain people do or did, nor has other people's opinions on matters of history (or my opinion for that matter) ever affected my acceptance of the Church as completely the Lord's. I do not dwell on matters of which I have limited knowledge because that is quite stupid, when you don't have the whole picture, as in, you were not there observing, you have to be careful and reserve making your judgment and particularly when a negative voice is pushing you to decide, now. If you observe a leader make a mistake learn not to do that thing yourself because one day you might be the leader.
  7. Why is owning and operating it more important than making certain it does not fail? How does that diminish faith, for me it increases my faith. Are you aware that there is a lot being done by people who refuse to have others find out about it? Just go out of your way to do something helpful and keep it to yourself and I think you will see this issue differently.
  8. I think I saw that but I was referring to stuff on my old LDS discs I was researching.
  9. I do not know if I had a choice about coming here, I do not remember agreeing to come here, but I do think that is doctrinal. If I did agree to come here and if I saw what kind of a family I was going to, well, all I can say is, that was a brave choice. Because I would really like to change that and go to a loving and non-violent and non-abandoning family. All people ARE a type of our first parents in a very real AND symbolic sense, particularly those of us who have children. Adam and Eve gave us all the gift of being mortal, as did our parents. But we would not have our second estate bodies and current choices and opportunities under other circumstances. Ever since the first time I heard someone say that I chose to come here I have inwardly guffawed and I suppose I shouldn't.
  10. I mean this in a nice way. Actually the scripture reads like this: "Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Using your interpretation Eve is still in the garden of Eden and you can still get into the garden, per just that verse. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is in the garden (that's where they were when they partook of the fruit) and none of us can get to it nor into the garden. I have read the pomegranate stuff and all the related stuff, it is conjecture. We have, however, the knowledge of good and evil, which first came from the fruit of the tree, now comes from mortal life itself, our own experience and the teachings of others-yet mainly from the Spirit of the Lord which is one of the symbolical meanings of the tree.
  11. Yes, I have. Even with my endowment (1981) and the many I have done for others I still was not certain-mainly because I had never seriously questioned it-until recently, as far as I myself am concerned I believe it is a real tree with a lot of meanings attached to it, but a real tree and real fruit and I have a good feeling about believing this. My wife on the other hand says it doesn't matter. Which I find that comical. I don't think whether I believe the tree is real or not matters much, so I am not actually worried about it either way. That is pretty much where I stand on this subject.
  12. I have often wished that I could be given management of a PD like this one. My wife says my style of leadership is fearsome, but I really just do my best to get everyone on the same page, to be their very best, calm even when bullets are flying and caring even when dealing with a gross mess or people that you would rather never meet. Things like this happen, typically, when there is an honesty problem at the top of the chain and they are more worried about protecting someone that could potentially expose a bad situation or they just don't have the courage to deal with a bad cop who scares them. The dishonesty in our ranks has made it difficult to do the right thing, but there are many of the rising generation who get it and I think they are going to have a major positive impact.
  13. I have just completed looking over every reference on this subject that I have access to and reading all of your comments. It is now my belief that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is an actual tree and that it has actual fruit and that Adam and Eve actually partook of this fruit and thereby obtained this knowledge and brought about the fall. I thought that this tree might have only been symbolical or only figurative or metaphorical, but I am now convinced that it is real, literal. I have read the statements of its figurative and symbolical meanings, however, they do not show nor do they seem meant to reveal that the tree was not actual, only that there is polysemy attached to the tree or what it also represents. This is my opinion, but as far as I can tell, using the faulty brain I have, this is correct. I will address my accompanying questions later. Again, thank you for your input on this subject.
  14. I personally find the input fascinating and appreciate it very much.
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