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woo-sow856

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  1. BlueDreams, thanks so much for taking the time for me, even if it meant getting temporarily distracted. Heheh. I know it might be unsettling to try to direct someone you haven't even met and who you don't know to what extent is expressing the truth, but I'll assure you that my situation definitely warrants asking for this type of help. I felt empowered by your comments and assure you that your time expressing your thoughts was well spent. My wife and I definitely do have a lot of the structural problems you mentioned, one of which happens to be the very "stonewalling" concept talked about in the four horses analogy. I don't know yet if we are going to need it to call it quits, but I will say that in the event that I do, the type of things you've been saying will help me have better rationale for it. One last thing I wanted to mention was the touch part of my reason for starting this post is to talk about how I can make peace with the concept of Eternal Marriage, or a marriage being a covenant with God. If what you're saying is true, though, it would mean that there are some people for whom the right choice is to split up. Do you have any thoughts on how to make peace with the church treating marriage as a covenant regardless of the circumstances? As long as the church treats things this way, people will always be labeled as covenant breakers when they choose to go the direction of divorce. Do you have any thoughts on how to compromise what is taught concerning Eternal Marriage with the reality that there are some people, even within those who marry in the temple, for whom things can simply cannot work out?
  2. This is one of those things where I'm sure God expects us to look beyond the immediate meaning of what's said in the scriptures. Think of all the people who were not able to marry in this life, who were married but could never bear children, or who want to continue their family in the afterlife, etc. Also, please consider what is said concerning us being God's children, and us being born to him and a Heavenly Mother before we were born in this life. Considering these things, there's no doubt to me that there will be procreation in the afterlife. I guess the only question is whether that can only take place among resurrected beings, or if it can happen among spirits, as well. If it can't happen among spirits, perhaps what Christ is referring to in Matthew 22:30 is part of the nature of spirits awaiting resurrection (although I realize the verse mentions resurrection, that doesn't mean the same thing in every occurrence of the word in the scriptures, and is used elsewhere to refer to people in the spirit world [see Alma 40:15]).
  3. Hi Rain, to answer your question, the polygamy issue isn't something my wife and I have been arguing about, but my thoughts on the subject are definitely affected by contention we have in other areas. Things are hard enough in the marriage that the thought of being together for eternity with my wife as she stands right now is painful to say the least. Part of what I was getting at in this thread is the idea that what we "sealed on earth" during this life is perhaps not the source of ultimate happiness for all of us, and I've been trying to think of a way to convince myself that God is okay with us desiring a way of life in the eternities other than a life centered on the family one was sealed to in this life.
  4. The Nehor/Rain-thanks for your responses. Part of why I post these things is that I feel God has completely left me to figure out this situation on my own. Not consistently feeling that I have access to personal revelation has been the story of my life in recent years, no matter how big or small the decision. There have been times where I've had feelings that I've interpreted at first as the Spirit prompting me to keep trying, but to contrast that there have been times where the level of disgust and resent I've felt regarding problems in the marriage could not be more tangible. I have these two contrasting feelings that seem that they're both as strong as the other, and if the answer lies in simply "interpreting what God is saying to me", I am at wits' end as to which I'm supposed to interpret as God's voice. I recognize much of God's voice may be reflected in what other people say I should do. The result here has been the same. I've been hearing contrasting opinions as to what I should do. I have tried the approach of continuing the relationship to see the what type of fruits the experience may lead to. I have nevertheless been able to feel contented with what I have, or that it's completely where my heart lies. I recognize the possibility of God having distanced himself from me because of my mistakes, but I can honestly say I am doing all I can to be closer to God regardless of them. I know this is a tough subject to counsel people on, but I'd appreciate the feedback any one can give, even if it's on a minor topic that's come up in this thread (e.g. how to make peace with the fact that God doesn't give clear answers even during the most trying of times, or to what extent we can "recognize God's voice in the voice of his servants" even though His servants can have widely varying opinions, etc.)
  5. Hi tulip, I agree with you that the type of substances condemned in the Word of Wisdom can be hard for many to give up, and that there are certain benefits to some of them (note that I say some, not all of them). While I think the W. of W. should be treated as a commandment, I think the reason behind it is due more to imperfections in the way this was implemented into the church more so than there being something inherently wrong with tea, coffee, etc. I say imperfections because experience has told me that the W.ofW. is not uniform across the world. Whereas in the U.S. we have received explicit counsel from the general authorities that use of caffeine IS acceptable, there are areas of the world where the culture in the church does not allow it and would consider abstinence from caffeine a part of being considered worthy for a temple recommend (My wife happens to be from one of these countries, and I did my mission there and frequently interact from people from that area that have confirmed this). Think of it-if the W.ofW. was meant to be a reflection of what God does or does not want us to consume, wouldn't the commandment be consistent across the world? That being said, following authority in the church should require compliance with the rule until they say otherwise. As an individual with family members have been into alcohol before, for whom detaching themselves from their fondness of that lifestyle seems to require a lifelong quest with constant struggle in choosing to refrain, I cannot hear about the benefits people feel in that type of lifestyle without wondering why God would want us to forego those pleasures. I have come to believe that it's not the pleasure associated with it that is offensive to God, but instead the risk of inviting negative effects upon ourselves or our loved ones. I believe that God could one day reinstate these behaviors (and note that I say reinstate because there were definitely points in time where, for example, wine was not forbidden among believers. We only have to look as far as the sacrament prayer in the Book of Mormon to know that). It is possible for God to one day make those behaviors acceptable in a way that lets us get around the negative consequences. And for the sake of my family members that enjoy that lifestyle, I hope that's the case. Yet for now, where we don't have ways of getting around all the ill effects and also don't have the same authority as the church leaders who implemented this rule, I believe it's in our best interest for now to look at the Word of Wisdom as a trial of our faith.
  6. Everyone, thanks for your comments on this. They've given me something to strive for this last month or so, and have helped me give thought to the fact that perhaps I'm the one who is wrong in the relationship. It's interesting that Maidservant mentioned Johnny Lingo, because I feel like that movie could have a misleading message depending on how you take it. The message I got from it is that "one's spouse will feel more beautiful to you when you devote yourself to making them happy". I feel like the whole concept of what it means to find beauty in one's spouse means something different depending on the person, but I feel like even the movie Johnny Lingo suggests that one should expect to want to feel physical attraction towards their spouse (note how at the end of the movie Mahana presents a completely different appearance to the point where she is stunning to those who meet her). I believe it is possible to have a wife who, for lack of a better way of saying things, "has eight cows paid for them", only to show forth toxic behavior towards their spouse and to not want to become beautiful for them, in any sense of the word. If one who has been muscling through this behavior for years and feels things are not getting any better, I'm wondering what the next step would be. I am seriously at my wits' end, and I feel like I've been continuing this more so because I fear the spiritual consequences of quitting more so than anything. Of course, I wouldn't want to part with my kids or do anything that would cause them grief, but continuing my marriage for the kids' sake alone is something I do not feel will ultimately lead to a better relationship with my wife. The church has some general principles that can help people, but for those for whom the hurt in a relationship is beyond the help of those general principles, I want to know what to do next. I know this is hard topic to address people on, but it would be great to hear your feedback on any part of this you feel like you can help advise on (and for the record, I have taken this issue to my bishop and marriage counselors, and I feel they either lean towards wanting me to split up with my wife, or that they've seen so little progress in my marriage that they don't know how to help anymore).
  7. Mormon dialogues response [下書き]このメッセージは送信されていません。 保存時刻: 2018/10/04 (木) 0:21 Thank you for all who replied. I commend those of you who are diligently trying to go about your relationships as the Savior would. I thought I would ask, though-do any of you think there's a possibility that certain people can be too different to possibly make the marriage work? Or that even if they do make it work through mortality, that they merely endured it and don't want to continue with it when they enter the next life? It is theoretically possible for people to get married that aren't physically attracted enough to one another, who nonetheless go through with marriage for whatever reason (some examples I can think of are a foreign person who marries someone of a different country just to get access to permanent residency in that person's country, a returned missionary who marries a girl from his mission country because the girl reminds him of his love for his mission even though he hasn't grasped the sense of the person she is, etc.). The level of differences in my marriage make me feel like I need to shave off the bulk of expectations I had for my life, and that all I have to hold on to is a little sliver of the things that actually have worked out. I had high expectations for myself, and am having to learn to live with one who (no offense) feels like the very opposite. I don't tell my wife that, of course, for fear of offending her, but the level of differences in our expectations (which have to do largely with differences in our socioeconomic background) are a constant source of pain and frustration. People say that happiness in marriage is something that can always be chosen, but if that's the case, why is it possible to feel so miserable notwithstanding me putting forth the effort, and to not be able to at least have some days where we can have the loving feeling restored? Is it possible that once peoples' expectations have diverged to a certain level, that it is no longer in one's best interest to continue the relationship (the differences I'm talking about aren't morally wrong, but do definitely require drastic adjustments to one's expectations)? If so, does anyone have any good ideas on how I can tell if I've reached that point? I know this is a hard question, but I'm consistently feeling down about this issue, and being able to turn to people like all of you for help is a great source of support. Thanks for your time.
  8. Hi rpn, the scripture about there being many mansions prepared definitely is comforting and gives the impression that there will be room even within the next life for people having different types of lifestyles. Going back to the polygamy issue, there has been a lot said about the commonality the human family within a Zion society (for example, the description of Enoch's people in Moses 7 and the Nephites in 4 Nephi). The idea of people in the next life still being tied to what type of culture they had in mortality and not being able to take part of the culture of a different time period seems contradictory to the idea of having all things in common. Also, there's also the question of the purpose of plural marriages performed in the early church that were apparently for "eternity only". Don't you think there's a possibility that polygamy for that purpose could still prevail within the next life?
  9. I am an active member of the church having a particularly difficult time with my marriage, and am looking to hear from people who have been married about their feelings in their respective relationships so I can help know what to expect. My wife and I have grown apart so much that it feels there's hardly any of the person l fell in love with left in her. While her and I have our arguments, which have reached intense levels, we've reached a point in our daily lives where things have neutralized out for the most part. We're able to treat each other as a person we don't necessarily like but whose presence can nonetheless be endured. I am asking myself, though, if this is what marriage is supposed to be about. I know that it's hard for people to keep romantic love throughout their marriage, but I never would have guessed that things would feel this far from it. I feel depressed enough about this that I have lost much of my interest in anything in life, and I dread the thought of having to endure life from here. I am of course working with counselors and my bishop about things, and don't present any danger to myself or that kind of thing. My wife isn't too open to hearing my concerns or getting marriage counseling. If anyone has experiences you can share of dealing with this feeling of hopelessness in one's marriage and making sense of it in light of the gospel, I would love to hear them. I've of course made this a matter of prayer, but feel completely left to myself without any sense of assurance. Sorry if this sounds overly negative, but as I see this as a crisis in my life, I felt hearing peoples' experiences would be a start in trying to sort through this. Thanks.
  10. Hi rpn, thank you for your comments. I have thought about this concept of whether or not God will force his children to accomplish his purposes. The church seems to make it sound like the ultimate purpose in living the gospel is so we can become gods and goddesses ourselves one day, but I know there are people who live the gospel diligently and nonetheless are not necessarily motivated by the idea of becoming a deity. I wonder if such people will eventually get to the point where even if they don't want that, God will expect them to, and will withhold blessings from them if they don't. The reason I bring this up on the issue of polygamy is that there is a possibility that some people might want that in the next life, and I'm wondering what would happen if one has lived worthy of the Celestial Kingdom but nonetheless doesn't want to conform to monogamy. The idea that God will not force his children and that there are different paths in the next life even for those who lived worthy of the Celestial Kingdom sounds appealing and I hope that's the case. I'd be curious to know if there's a scriptural reference or teaching you know of that backs up this idea.
  11. Hi ksfisher, thank you for your reply. 34:44 is the exact time this topic came up. The interesting thing is that it was mostly the historians that were speaking at this event, so I didn't know how credible their interpretation of certain doctrines were. There also wasn't any reference to what they based their interpretations off of other than Jacob 2: 27 and 30.
  12. Hello, I am an active member of the church and have been listening to the recent Face to Face event with Elder Cook. I was very concerned with the mention of the latter-prophets telling us how the polygamy situation will be in the next life. This contradicts things I have heard before in the church, and I don't understand why the church is making statements on things they don't know. If what they are saying is true that "monagamy will be the rule and polygamy the exception" in the next life, and that "polygamy in the early days of the church has accomplished its purpose", does anyone know what sources they are drawing off of? I personally haven't been able to find any statements by the brethren suggesting they know how things will be in the next life in this regard. If we do have statements suggesting such, I would like to know. Thanks for your help.
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