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Regor

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About Regor

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  1. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    I have not heard of someone leaving because of not being made a High Priest either. But there was the story I told earlier about the family that left the church because they thought the Ward was like a big High School. They thought it was a popularity contest and they related that to how all the popular members were running the entire Ward, STP, Same Ten People. I'm sure if they were in my current Ward and saw the guy become a High Priest without a calling for that office, he would have exploded over that one.
  2. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    Its more about the perception of others in the church that being made a High Priest is a "promotion". I don't even consider or comprehend it as a promotion, its an office to perform a function. My point is a 35 year old Elder in my Ward was made a High Priest without a calling requiring it at the time he received it or two years to date since. Dozens of Elders younger and older than him were not made High Priests. Why him? The suggested answer was that some families produce "so many effective leaders" that offspring has to be moved to High Priest even if no calling is waiting for them at the time or any foreseeable future time? I think the perception that its a "promotion" to be called to High Priest is more prevalent among members than many of us are wiling to acknowledge. My point is that the act of making him a High Priest perpetuated the notion that its a "promotion" for being better than the average bear. In the church boys "advance in rank" , are "promoted" through the Cub Scouts and Scouts. When boys turn 12 they receive the priesthood and then are "advanced" to Teacher at 14, Priest at 16, and Elder soon after turning 18. Each advancements is preceded by an interview to confirm righteousness/worthiness. Apparently that process programs some boys into believing the next advancement is to High Priest. Maybe that's a secondary reason why the Scouting program is going away. Members begin to question the worthiness of Elders not ordained High Priests by the age 50's for sure, or maybe some earlier member appointed deadline. Since becoming a High Priest has no advancement date, or a list of achievements the perception by some members is that God must have conducted the interview and found that individual to be unworthy/unrighteous, because after all, look at all the younger bucks that have been "Advanced" instead of them. That Elder must be failing their swim test. The attitude is not just among the men, I had a women in my ward say to me out of the blue; "your getting a little long in the tooth for an Elder aren't you? " I compare it to what my wife and I called the Napoleon Dynamite effect. My wife and I noticed when that movie came out almost all the jocks and families of jocks did not find that movie to be very funny, because they didn't get it. Others, mostly non jocks, and families with no jocks thought it was hilarious. I think its the same if your 50 or some other age perceived to be too old for an Elder, you get it. Elders made High Priest at a younger age probably don't get the disparagement, or escaped it before turning a High Priest. They escaped the environment of shame that is put upon older Elders periodically. Not constantly, because after all we are Latter day Saints so you can go weeks and months until an event occurs that reminds you of what people think. Now I'm a convert and have a strong testimony so I just brush off the comments, and like I have said all along it doesn't matter to me. It does matter to me and make me wonder how many Elders have left the church because of that judgmental attitude. That really is an application of the commandment not to judge. We always hear the word "offended" as a reason people leave the church. I would love to see a cause and effect diagram of "left the church because offended, how many causes could be attributed to disrespected by members that perceive them as unworthy because of their calling or priesthood status.
  3. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    My bloodline must be just short of serf status if we equate leadership to being ordained without a need for the ordination and only because of the bloodline. Now were back to ordinations to High Priest representing a superior status. This talk of superior leadership bloodline comparing them to early Woodruff and Smith blood lines instead of just an office to execute a calling.
  4. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    I think the change will help stop the Status games. It definitely goes on. We have one guy in our Ward where about 2 years ago out of the blue he was ordained a High Priest at the age of 34. He was not being called to any calling requiring a High Priest office, and has not been since. His dad had a High Priest calling and lets say a higher profile calling. Those are the types of things that go on that make you go Hummm. Can anyone explain that one?
  5. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    I think an entire church generation will need to pass before we fully begin to lose the status misconceptions about becoming a High Priest. Even the Bishop of Stargazer was concerned about “calling him to be a High Priest”, what is the calling in becoming a High Priest? In the case of Staregazer there was none, it was just to attend meetings with the High Priest. As we all agree, becoming a High Priest is an “Office” for executing specific callings. If there wasn’t some pre supposed status around becoming a High Priest the Bishop would have simply told Stargazer to start attending the High Priest quorum, it he would like, or the Elders, it’s up to him. I have heard of that before, some people have told me they were asked by their Bishops if they wanted to start attending the High Priest meeting without ever being ordained a High Priest. You will still never completely kill the status police, there will just be more Elders at 50 years old going forward with the change, since an entire quorum of leadership has been eliminated. You want to shake things up, I would love to see the leadership just ordain everyone that reaches 30 years in the priesthood a High Priest, they could say, if you have been around that long you are wise in your ways and we want you ready to serve as a Bishop, councilor, or in the High Council at any moment, without needing to also ordain you to be a High Priest at the same time. That way when a man retires and moves to a retirement Ward no one will ask him what was wrong with him that he never became a High Priest.
  6. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    I wouldn't say I'm bitter, as I said it really doesn't bother me that much that I'm still an Elder at the age of 51 because I know the church is true and God is in control. I have had to go through much toil since converting at 20 years old. My family and friends rejected me but I continued to push forward with faith is my savior Jesus Chris. No need to make me feel better, As Kenny Loggins said in his song, I'm all right. This is a forum for discussion and that's what I'm doing at this moment, discussing my observation and experiences. Being 51 and an Elder is not routine in my Stake. I am the oldest active Elder in my Ward, other than people that are on the list that no one has ever seen at church since they were teenagers and are now in their 50's to 90's. I have been active all my life. I have nothing to come out of either. I am quite complacent with my life. I have a nice family, I have a good education and job and plan on perusing a masters degree into my late 50's. All I'm saying is the lord is pleased with the church collectively but not individually. Let me give you an example of the type of leader in the church that was less than a perfect example to me. During a Stake organized Scout outing a High Councilor purchased some Stake designed patches for the boys in my Ward, I believe I was the scout master at that time. I had previous picked them up at the outing. Later on a Sunday that he was in our Ward I went to pay him with cash. He said; "I can't take the money from you on this Sabbath day." So, I went over to the clerk’s office put the money in an envelope, filled out the "other" section on the slip and told the clerk that the X High Council member needed to be paid with a check. The clerk said, "Why don't you just give him the cash"? I told him he wouldn't take it. The High councilmen wanted paid, he just didn't want my money on this day. So, the clerk cut a check, got the signatures and handed it to him a few minutes later. My thought was... when the check was placed in his hand did he realize the church policy is that you can pay someone on Sunday. I hope he realized it had a very holier than thou appearance. I just wanted to give him the money for the patches so I didn't have to drop money in the mail, or chase him down somewhere on one of the other 6 days of the week. That experience with the HC actually didn't surprise me at the moment because I saw him push his authority around else ware on other people. This is just a warning about priesthood leaders, remember, many are called but few are chosen, and why are they not chosen......The fact he was called to be a High councilor in my mind because he needed the experience and hopefully that Sunday was an experience he needed. I'm sure he did many fine works but that side of him definitely needed some polishing. The fact is that when you are 51 and not an Elder people look down at you. Many in the church look up to authority and equate it to righteousness, the Doctrine and Covenants actually talks about High Priest being holy and obtaining that position from good works. When you are older and not a High Priest you don't have to be bitter to get disrespected. You have to deal with probably half or more of the members having less respect for you. Like I said; My wife gave me the Rodney Dangerfield award, I now wear it with honor.
  7. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    Didn't intend to post again. Thought the first one didn't post and saw it later.
  8. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    I think I was a little naïve as a new member of the church at the age of 20. I thought all callings were God inspired, but my testimony of this belief has been shaken over the years. I have enjoyed and continue to enjoy serving in the church and had many wonderful experiences. However in retrospect I feel like a workhorse, receiving callings that stymied my spiritual leadership growth by their nature. While others conversely walked the leadership rout by socializing with people who are generally above their priesthood and calling station. I don’t roll like that. When I was in the primary I directed all effort towards teaching the children, when in the scouts for years I put effort into helping the boys attend as many campouts as possible and learn the program so they would gain leadership, not try to show mine. As a result of my 31 years of continuous activity, serving a mission, supporting my leaders, and being a worth temple holder I’m now a 51 year old Elder. You don’t need to send me the Ensign article “Only an Elder” to make me feel better it only hurts when I think about it. I’m the only member in my family so I don’t have the shame of other siblings, parents, or other family members but as my sons leave the home I believe they will become High Priest before me. I never talk to anyone about my age and not being a High Priest, it would be added shame to let anyone I know personally know that it hurts. It drives my wife of 25 years crazy, and she says that the Rodney Dangerfield award she won in college now goes to me. When the combining of Elders and High Priests quorums change happened she said, well that seals it, you’ll never be a high priest now. My one son saw a members enter the bishopric that had not served a missions and said; ” look at so and so, they didn’t serve a mission and God thinks there a better leader then return missionaries, I think I will do like them and not go on a mission”. I’m passed over for High Priest leadership while divorced and remarried men enter bishoprics and High council, almost always to join their friends in those positions. Like I said, it doesn’t bother me that much, I enjoy serving and am not a big ego type that seeks after higher profile calling, obviously. However, when you’re the young men’s president at an older age and still an Elder you tend to get the look of “What is wrong with him?” I have to believe there is a degree of bias in who is chosen to serve in callings. In the end my thought is that this is my trial in life, to live without ever having the opportunity to serve in High Priest callings. I guess I will not be one of the 144,000 High Priests teaching throughout the decimated world during the millennium. I will have too much family history to continue working on anyway. I think it is therapeutic to express my feelings somewhere rather than just keep them bottled up, good use of this forum. From an overall administrative standpoint I don’t know if the policy change will be that effective. For years my wife and I have discussed the priesthood being held by men and we both believe it’s because men have egos and need to lead. If we didn’t have a men driven leadership then we would be like all the other churches where the women run the church and the men stay home and watch football. So I should be grateful the Melchizedek priesthood under the office of Elder has offered me the opportunity to move away from my worship of football I experienced during the 70’s and part of the 80’s. Seriously, it has been a blessing to bless others including my family. Maybe someday when I work though this it will be beneficial to another. I wasn’t able to help a newly baptized family in my previous ward, they felt the Ward was like a big high school. A popularity contest, their parting words were; “ we had to deal with a mandatory 4 year popularity contest, why would we voluntarily continue living the rest of our life like that?” Their experience best describes the frustration, when maybe the more popular or friend of the leader is chosen instead of the best person. I know it’s not like this everywhere but unfortunately I have been in 4 wards like this.
  9. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    I think I was a little naïve as a new member of the church at the age of 20. I thought all callings were God inspired, but my testimony of this belief has been shaken over the years. I have enjoyed and continue to enjoy serving in the church and had many wonderful experiences. However in retrospect I feel like a workhorse, receiving callings that stymied my spiritual leadership growth by their nature. While others conversely walked the leadership rout by socializing with people who are generally above their priesthood and calling station. I don’t roll like that. When I was in the primary I directed all effort towards teaching the children, when in the scouts for years I put effort into helping the boys attend as many campouts as possible and learn the program so they would gain leadership, not try to show mine. As a result of my 31 years of continuous activity, serving a mission, supporting my leaders, and being a worth temple holder I’m now a 51 year old Elder. You don’t need to send me the Ensign article “Only an Elder” to make me feel better it only hurts when I think about it. I’m the only member in my family so I don’t have the shame of other siblings, parents, or other family members but as my sons leave the home I believe they will become High Priest before me. I never talk to anyone about my age and not being a High Priest, it would be added shame to let anyone I know personally know that it hurts. It drives my wife of 25 years crazy, and she says that the Rodney Dangerfield award she won in college now goes to me. When the combining of Elders and High Priests quorums change happened she said, well that seals it, you’ll never be a high priest now. My one son saw a members enter the bishopric that had not served a missions and said; ” look at so and so, they didn’t serve a mission and God thinks there a better leader then return missionaries, I think I will do like them and not go on a mission”. I’m passed over for High Priest leadership while divorced and remarried men enter bishoprics and High council, almost always to join their friends in those positions. Like I said, it doesn’t bother me that much, I enjoy serving and am not a big ego type that seeks after higher profile calling, obviously. However, when you’re the young men’s president at an older age and still an Elder you tend to get the look of “What is wrong with him?” I have to believe there is a degree of bias in who is chosen to serve in callings. In the end my thought is that this is my trial in life, to live without ever having the opportunity to serve in High Priest callings. I guess I will not be one of the 144,000 High Priests teaching throughout the decimated world during the millennium. I will have too much family history to continue working on anyway. I think it is therapeutic to express my feelings somewhere rather than just keep them bottled up, good use of this forum. From an overall administrative standpoint I don’t know if the policy change will be that effective. For years my wife and I have discussed the priesthood being held by men and we both believe it’s because men have egos and need to lead. If we didn’t have a men driven leadership then we would be like all the other churches where the women run the church and the men stay home and watch football. So I should be grateful the Melchizedek priesthood under the office of Elder has offered me the opportunity to move away from my worship of football I experienced during the 70’s and part of the 80’s. Seriously, it has been a blessing to bless others including my family. Maybe someday when I work though this it will be beneficial to another. I wasn’t able to help a newly baptized family in my previous ward, they felt the Ward was like a big high school. A popularity contest, their parting words were; “ we had to deal with a mandatory 4 year popularity contest, why would we voluntarily continue living the rest of our life like that?” Their experience best describes the frustration, when maybe the more popular or friend of the leader is chosen instead of the best person. I know it’s not like this everywhere but unfortunately I have been in 4 wards like this.
  10. Regor

    This is not a takeover...

    I will keep you up to date, in our stake the new Elders Quorum president is a High Priest in two of the two Wards called so far.
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