Jump to content

co-eternal

Members
  • Content Count

    185
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

21 Excellent

About co-eternal

  • Rank
    Seriously Seeking the True Nature of God

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Orem, Utah
  • Interests
    Resto

Recent Profile Visitors

381 profile views
  1. The name of this forum is Mormon Dialog, I will speak entirely from an LDS perspective. This topic asks the question about how we teach the Atonement.. From the perspective of this verse, I don't see that as a problem of teaching but of learning. D&C 76 7 And to them will I areveal all bmysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all things pertaining to my kingdom. 8 Yea, even the wonders of aeternity shall they know, and things to come will I show them, even the things of many generations. God has revealed the nature of the atonement, how it actually works. But understanding that is predicated on knowing and understanding other revealed doctrines, doctrines that have been rejected by most of the LDS. I Know exactly how the Atonement accomplishes what it claims. How do I know, because I've put away all my superstitions, my preconceived ideas, the philosophies of men and studied what the prophets of the restoration taught - without prejudice towards them and the doctrine they teach. It was not easy to give up my beliefs and prejudices, to set them aside while giving attention to what they taught. But in time, I gave up my beliefs and prejudices in favor of the eternal truths taught by those called to restore these truths. As a result, I know how the Atonement works. I know exactly what it takes to be exalted. I know what role the Blood of Christ plays. I know what happened in the Garden. I know how God became God and Christ became Christ. I know how I came to be where I am. I know what is next for me and what is expected of me. I know that some of you will say that is not possible, I just can not know these things. But to them I'll remind you of Matthew 7 7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? Do you believe the scriptures? Do you believe that God sent A prophet to restore lost Eternal Truths? Do you believe he fulfilled his calling and restored lost Eternal Truths? Do you believe prophets of God were chosen to continue in the Path of Joseph Smith and teach the truths he restored? Do you believe those prophets taught those restored truths? Do you believe thost restored truths were recorded for us to read? Have you sought out those restored truths? Have you embraced those restored truths? If not, why not?
  2. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    Only because you don't agree. There are other sources, the ones in which some of these are derived.(Chiniquy Fifty Years in the Church of Rome ) And these are just a few. There are so many more. And if these are so incredible, why would you then quote anti-Mormon statements from them. Also, I find so any assertions with no references and when references are then provided criticism follows.
  3. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    "The Mormon Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible and of Christians, but the literal brother of Lucifer in the 'premortal existence' " Yep, this one is indeed true, at least partially. All inhabitants of this earth, mortal or spirit, are spirit sons and daughters of God. That includes Lucifer and Christ, so yes, Lucifer/Satan is Christ's spirit brother and he is also our spirit brother, just as Christ is. If find it interesting to read criticisms of the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Later-Day-Saints that actually come right out of the Bible. Isn't that then a criticism of the doctrines of the Bible.
  4. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    I'm sure you know them all, but I have read many. All these have some truths and some falsehoods. You have to read both and discern for yourself which is which. I presented these to show that there is considerable evidence as to what I have said that is easily attained - rater than just responding "are you nuts".
  5. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    Just to be accurate ,
  6. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    ad ho·mi·nem /ˌad ˈhämənəm/ adverb & adjective adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem 1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. "vicious ad hominem attacks" https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+ad+hominem&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
  7. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. In this article, we are going to examine a few Roman Catholic doctrines and compare them with the Authorized Version of 1611 of the Bible. The Roman Catholic church is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/cath.htm No, Roman Catholicism and Christianity are not the same thing. Christianity is properly defined by certain doctrines that are revealed in the Bible. It is not defined by simply saying that as long as you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian. Mormons believe in Jesus, but their Jesus is a brother of the devil in the pre-existence. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is Michael the Archangel. So, just saying you believe in Jesus doesn't make you a Christian. This is why the Bible tells us who Jesus really is--God in flesh, creator of the universe. Likewise, there are essential doctrines; and if any of those essential doctrines are violated, then a church would only appear to be Christian but not really be Christian. What are those doctrines? The Bible tells us. Let's take a look. https://C***.org/is-catholicism-christian The Roman Catholic Church teaches that it is the only source of salvation for sinners. The Bible teaches the LORD Jesus Christ is the only Saviour. Catholics are taught that the Catholic Church forgives sins. The Bible teaches that forgiveness comes directly from God through faith in Christ, not through church membership or sacraments. Catholics believe the lie that Baptism saves. Water baptism saves nobody. Salvation must precede water baptism. The Vatican claims Peter was The Rock upon whom Christ founded His Church. The Christ of the Holy Bible disagrees. Popes claim they are infallible. The Holy Bible declares all men are corrupt. Only God is infallible. Roman Catholic Priests and Leaders are infallible. This blasphemy is clearly exposed by recent publicity. The Catholic Sacraments are essential for salvation. Nobody is saved by sacraments, but through faith in Christ alone. The Catholic Church is the only correct interpreter of Scriptural doctrine. The Holy Spirit is the only Interpreter man needs. Transubstantiation; God is formed into a wafer-biscuit at the priest's command. This unbiblical idolatrous blasphemy is taken from Babylonian sun worship. The Eucharist keeps from sin. Only genuine heart faith in Christ takes away sin. The Virgin Mary is a co-redeemer and saviour. This hideous blasphemy puts Mary into the Trinity, and breaks her heart. https://www.born-again-christian.info/catholics.htm When we talk about God we often need to talk about him in parts. Because God is so big and our brains are so small, we need to be able to talk about him in manageable chunks. That is why we sometimes talk about the doctrine of the Trinity, or of Christ, of the church, of creation, and so on. However, because God is one and presents himself to us as a person, Jesus Christ, he is not reducible to those different parts; all these parts impact on and affect each other. You can’t change your doctrine about Jesus without it affecting your doctrine of the Trinity, for example. That is why when we learn and teach about God we study in a systematic way—so we can understand God best through an integrated and coherent system of truths, not isolated ideas. http://gotherefor.com/offer.php?intid=29657&changestore=true The Roman Catholic church, headquartered in Rome, Italy, has its own powerful City-State, the Vatican. The Roman Catholic church unofficially came into being in 312 A.D., at the time of the so-called "miraculous conversion" to Christianity of the Roman Emperor Constantine but he still worshipped the sun god. Although Christianity was not made the official religion of the Roman Empire until the edicts of Theodosius I in 380 and 381 A.D., Constantine, from 312 A.D. until his death in 337, was engaged in the process of simultaneously building pagan temples and Christian churches, and was slowly turning over the reins of his pagan priesthood to the Bishop of Rome. However, the family of Constantine did not give up the last vestige of his priesthood until after the disintegration of the Roman Empire – that being the title the emperors bore as heads of the pagan priesthood – Pontifex Maximus – a title which the popes would inherit. The popes also inherited Constantine's titles as the self-appointed civil head of the church – Summus Pontifex (Vicar of Christ and Bishop of Bishops). http://www.eaec.org/cults/romancatholic.htm Catholic Church Built on Paganism If you read the Word of God you will find no scripture to support the use of symbols or images or statues in our faith. In fact, God even warned us not to use images in His law. Exodus 20:4-5 ...'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.' And yet the Roman Catholic church is FULL of these images and symbols and statues. And the leaders of this church have gone so far as to REMOVE the second commandment from the Catholic Catechism. Why is that? Because the Roman Catholic Church is built upon PAGANISM and WORSHIP OF FALSE GODS. And the people of the Catholic Church need to be woken up to this fact. "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church." (An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry 'Cardinal Newman' p.373) http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/catholic-pagan.html Question: "What is the origin of the Roman Catholic Church?" Answer: The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church? For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine and his successors promoted progressively became a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism. https://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html The Church of Rome Hislop considers the Church of Rome during the start of Catholicism and into the Dark Ages. The symbol of the Church of Rome became the woman with a cross in her left hand, and a cup in her right. It was said that "the whole world is her seat." During the Dark Ages, the Bible was sealed and unknown to the common man. People were forced to believe like the church believed. The priests reserved the right of teaching the faith, and the clergy sold dispositions of the true faith of Christianity. They practiced celibacy and priest craft, and held a mysterious power of dominion over the faith. Some did not even realize that they had simply adopted the pagan customs of the ancient mystery religions. It is not difficult to see how some of the traditions of these ancient gods carried over into Christian Rome. Even in the first century, poems confused the story of the divine father, mother, and son with the story of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. In Japan, Spain, and India, there were legends of three-headed gods which some confused with the trinity of the Godhead. In many lands, mother-worship prevailed and was supported by citing Genesis 3:15 as proof that the mother would bruise the heel of Satan, and that she indeed had power over him. The Messiah is sometimes seen as only a mediator between the goddess and mankind, instead of as a savior. Mystery A primary example of the analogies drawn between the Babylonian mystery religions and Roman Catholicism is the practice of incorporating certain well-kept secrets that are available to only a select few. Rome insured that the common man was studiously kept in the dark, as did Babylon. Throughout the years, Catholicism has become known for a priesthood which seems to include only members of the clergy. By discouraging the reading of the Bible in the common language of the people, the church has also discouraged personal Bible study among its non-clergy members. This in turn has tended to teach the laypersons to become very dependent upon the clergy for Bible truths, and even for access to God. This hardly seems in step with the priesthood of the believer (1 Peter 2:5, 9), where we are all encouraged to enter into the mind of God through His revealed Word. Confession Even the confessional had its roots in Babylon. All the people were required to make secret confessions to the priest in a prescribed form, if they were to be admitted, or initiated, into the "mysteries" of their religion. They were commanded to keep secret about these mysteries. Later, the Church of Rome began requiring the same type of confession for admission to the sacraments. Even the symbol of the Halo of Madonna was originated in Babylon as a disk symbol of the sun god. https://www.christiandataresources.com/pagancatholicism.htm To quote just a few .......
  8. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    1) ad hominem is where you attack the messenger instead of the message - as in "a puppet of Anon" or "are you nuts" 2) Prove it - list them all - you've made the claim, put up or shut up. 3) google, if you know how. 4) Anon is mor rational than you. 6) well, if you put it that way, yes
  9. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    1) I don't take ad hominems as satire or parody, it is a crutch used to signal they are out of rational arguments but don't know better than to stop arguing. 2) You are correct, the only thing I have said that has anything to do with the temple ceremony is as you have said. How ever I did say something about truths hidden in plain sight in the endowment but that does not reveal any content of the endowment ceremony. 3) It is even more weird, from the perspective of a practicing LDS to see other supposibly practicing LDS demonstrate such ignorance of what they practice and intolerance to those to those who demonstrate knowledge of what they practice. (Mind you, this is not the first time or topic Calm and Nehor have exhibited this same type of response to my posts on topics I which have done considerable research.) 4) Not only am I not Anon's pupil, I am no ones puppet - Thanks for the compliment, rational and reasonable are what I am. 5) Didn't know that. 6) well I was, but ... I find it difficult to have rational and reasonable arguments (as in debate type presentation of aurguments and rebuttals) with the ill equipped with opinions based on conjecture and assumptions. There are so many topics I would like to discuss, exchange Ideas, teach and learn but, well it seams that those who post the most have the least to say. I would much rather discuss the real Garden of Eden story. Or how the atonement actually accomplishes what Christ says it does/will. Or what is the true nature of the Sealing Power. Or the the process the earth goes through starting with the fall ending in it's celestialization Or why the argument between Evolution and Creation is mote because they are both wrong. But I find that what to many really wish to discuss is the failings they see in other people.
  10. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    Hey, you started this so that. So that puts your maturity the one in question.
  11. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    And you certainly resemble that remark.
  12. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    again, your and Nahor's claim is pathetic. But go ahead and report my post. I revealed nothing so sacred as to not post here. If what I said is so scared as to not post here then nearly all LDS doctrine is too scared to post here. So just go ahead and report my post. How pathetic. totally pathetic.
  13. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    How pathetic, a claim. I have revealed nothing in which I have covenanted to keep secret. Just pathetic, your lack of understanding.
  14. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    You have curly not listened to the instructions, I have not revealed anything in which I covenanted to keep to myself. You make such a pathetic claim.
  15. co-eternal

    The reasons for the flood

    Must you continue to tell lies? I revealed nothing I covenanted not to. There are specific things wa are not to reveal and I revealed none of them. Just goes to show how little you understand the endowment along with most everything else. Truth is not something you have going for you, but then we already knew that.
×