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Exiled

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About Exiled

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    Separates Water & Dry Land

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  1. Exiled

    Oaks on Religious Freedom

    This strikes me as someone lamenting his lost authority with the people. People are turning away from religion and Oaks seems to be using "religious freedom" as a vehicle to fight this trend. No one is trying to stop Bro. Oaks from practicing his religion. In reality, religious freedom is not under attack. It's just that more and more people don't care what he or other religious leaders have to say. Society is turning more and more secular and Oaks doesn't like this. In reality, in terms of morals what does religion tell us that cannot be found elsewhere? Without religion, morality survives. Jails are full of christians and not many atheists. How many wars have been fought in the name of religion over the centuries? Also, don't forget the self-inflicted wounds that religion has caused to itself today. Covering up sexual scandals doesn't help with authority.
  2. What do you make of Dr. David Bokovoy, PhD and his leaving? From his Dehlin interviews, he seems to have thought through the issues thoroughly and came up with a non-believing conclusion. I don't think you can discount Mr. Bokovoy's non-belief as coming from a lack of scholarship, reasoning or not having read what apologists are saying.
  3. I just listened to her podcast regarding the West Virginia abuse case. She shouldn't be upset over the excommunication, she should be happy over it.
  4. This might have something to do with the so-called "mormon moment" lessening. Romney isn't running and there isn't the quite the media push that there once was. The I'm a Mormon campaign is over too. Accordingly, the national media could be focused elsewhere. Maybe if Colvin can tie herself with Trump somehow, the media will pay attention. 😄
  5. I agree with those who say that Gina shouldn't be surprised about excommunication when she has joined another church. Has she expressed any surprise at this?
  6. It is clear that the church participated institutionally from the church owned DN article and it is also clear that E. Holland emphatically denies the institutional participation. You then try to change the subject. It doesn't matter what Bill Reel says or what you say or what I say. The simple fact is that the church, itself, participated in prop 8 and the church owned DN reports this from a church source. However E. Holland says otherwise. Perhaps it was a mistake or perhaps E. Holland wasn't correctly informed or perhaps E. Holland was emphasizing monetary contributions in order to mislead. Even so, he denies that there was any church participation and that isn't true. Really, it isn't a big deal. But how about we just deal with the truth?
  7. Read the article, the DN says "[l]ast year, the LDS Church said its total contributions to "Yes on 8" tallied $189,903.58 — all nonmonetary, in-kind contributions such as video production from its studios, church employee time and airfare and lodging costs for church leaders traveling to California for campaign efforts." That sure sounds like institutional participation to me, which E. Holland says didn't happen. Perhaps E. Holland mis-remembered? As you know, it isn't a lie as long as you believe it .... George Costanza.
  8. E. Holland says in his conversation with the student regarding prop 8 that " on that one, we chose to be a little more vocal, a little more visible. And by "we," I just emphasize totally that this is a voluntary lay participation, with no money and with no formalization institutionally. But something we all cared about." See what Smac posted on the prior page for the entire quote with the student. However, the church paid a fine regarding its formalized participation institutionally. https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700038678/Mormon-Church-agrees-to-pay-small-fine-for-mistake-that-led-to-late-report-of-contributions-in-Prop.html
  9. Exiled

    David Bokovoy on Mormon Stories

    I highly recommend the Bokovoy interview. He is the surfer/barbeque/free spirit/intellectual person that the church or any organization needs. His passion for what he believes is infectious and it comes out in this interview. The church lost when he left.
  10. Exiled

    David Bokovoy on Mormon Stories

    Perhaps it will change for the former president if people start believing his views. Also, being vocal about one's disagreement with the church at church can be problematic depending on how vocal one becomes. How do you know what the former president believes? Does he express his disbelief in the middle of Sunday school or at the pulpit? Or is it expressed privately in the foyer?
  11. Exiled

    David Bokovoy on Mormon Stories

    I wonder if Bokovoy will face excommunication as well. He doesn't believe in the church's truth claims, doesn't like the church's politics concerning LGBT rights and is vocal about it. Soon, someone might view him as dangerous to the flock.
  12. Exiled

    David Bokovoy on Mormon Stories

    So, you think Quinn was disciplined more for his sexual orientation, or at least in part? Do you have any proof of this?
  13. Exiled

    Study Re: Consciousness "After Death"

    My great grandfather claimed to have left his body during an illness where the rest of the family thought he had died. When he came back, he said he hovered over his body and the other members of the family and recited back some of the conversation the family was having when he was supposedly dead. From that time on, my family had a rule to not speak ill of the dead or start fighting over the dead person's stuff until after the funeral. One never knows when the dead will come back to life. 🤔
  14. I also said I wasn't surprised by this like I would not be surprised to be kicked out of any group for similar public expressions of unbelief in the group.
  15. I don't know if the big tent is possible given the emphasis on truth claims. Divergent views about the truth claims cannot be tolerated due how authority depends on them. So, public disagreement is met with a polite invitation to leave or be silent. It's really not surprising.
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