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Exiled

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  1. Bishop says he confessed to a higher-up and still kept his job. Also the confession was about an incident that didn't include Denson (remember she didn't have enhancement surgery and wasn't well-endowed) How is this not problematic for the church? If the suit continues, the question remains about what the church knew and when. If the confession was pre-Denson, then the church continued to allow a predator to be the MTC president. Pretty bad for the lawsuit from the church's perspective. Also, pretty bad that the church let Bishop the sexual predator to continue to walk the halls of the MTC.
  2. Terming the "problem" as a faith "crisis" assumes non-belief is a problem, not continued belief. Also, I suspect non-believing psychologists, from my experience, would perhaps take the tact of telling both spouses to relent a little in order to find common ground. (If belief isn't that big of a deal, why not have both accomodate?) However, Ms. Blue Dreams pushed back on that a little, saying it was unfair for the believer to relent on his/her belief. So, what is the non-believer to do? Is the "counseling" then really about getting the non-believer to not evangelize and be patient with the attempts to get the "prodigal" to return?
  3. Ok. But at a certain point, words have meanings that are understood by the population at large and meanings can be presumed and thoughts therefore understood. Again, if Blue Dreams thinks I don't understand her, she is capable of letting me know and explaining where I am in error. If she decides to further engage, I would like to know if she tackles the problem presuming that the church is true and if this can ever be an issue with her couples. Or does the non-believer need to remain quiet while pressured to return?
  4. I understand what she said and maybe she should be the one answering for herself. If she doesn't priviledge belief, I don't think she would discount what I said regarding having both relax over who is right and who is wrong. If it is fine to be triggered when the non-believer suggests that the believer might not have such a strong position, obviously belief is favored. That's fine. However, I wonder if she has problems counseling the non-believer if belief being correct is assumed from the beginning?
  5. So, you obviously assume the believing spouse is correct here, right? What do you ask of the non-believer if their believing spouse continually makes comments, or sighs, or continually pressures the non-believer to return to something the non-believer thinks is untrue? Is a rescue mission not allowed? Should the non-believer just accept the continued pressure to return?
  6. Of course. Well maybe there is hope for us after all. 🤣
  7. I like to make conclusions like others do. I don't think they are deliberately exaggerated as you obviously think. Haven't the leaders urged the family proclamation and pictures of the temple be put up in the house? So, I don't think it is surprising that some members follow these suggestions.
  8. And maybe it means that there isn't a solution to this, other than a cordial break-up. I have a better relationship with my ex now that we have been apart for some time.
  9. I've seen it in my home growing up in slc, in my friend's homes, in our ward neighbor's homes, etc. Perhaps it is so common that you don't notice? But of course, if I point out something that might be viewed as negative, I must have a grudge. Again, maybe this is part of the problem?
  10. Has it been shown that any of the claims Young put up were false? Sure, Ms. Denson is an incredibly poor example and a poor torch bearer. However, predators sometimes plan for the aftermath, when having to answer victims' claims against them becomes a he said/she said. One can see that a predator would want someone troubled like Denson to attack. Also, I think you are forgetting that Bishop confessed to inappropriate behavior and the Trib article today shows how supposedly Bishop confessed to his superiors and still kept his job. Without this evidence, perhaps Denson's claims would have been viewed with a little more skepticism. Maybe some of her claims were invented, however, she helped catch a pervert. Anyway, what are your thoughts on the me-too movement? They seem to want acceptance of claims regardless. Perhaps there was a little of that too. In any event, in my opinion, without Bishop's confession, I wouldn't have given Denson's story much credence.
  11. The assumption that the church is true and that the non-believer needs to be rescued is the source of a lot of the problems. The church, through its leaders, projects the message that it is the source of authority and wants to show that whenever it can, as in having the members paste church pictures all over the house, the control of marriage, and the pledges of loyalty required at certain times. So, of course when someone chooses not to follow any longer, the church wants those who remain to think that the person who left is somehow in need of rescuing. Sorry, but this adds to the problem. I understand that you cannot see these things, but perhaps this is part of the problem, too?
  12. Couldn't this be simplified into realizing that either side doesn't have a monopoly on truth? I'm right and you are wrong seems to create division that then can devolve into break-ups. Perhaps the believer can take a look at how the outside world views mormonism and maybe take things down a notch, and the non-believer and realize that there are some good aspects to mormon beliefs that are good for almost anyone? Anyway, I like the approach you take by trying to find common ground and dwelling on that ...
  13. What was the drama he focused on rather than the truth? Are you talking about the hunger strike? Are you talking about merely making his misgivings public? As far as Ms. Denson, her recording and Bishop's discussions with the police (who are continuing to fight to hide the full, unredacted report) show that there was something to her story. I think when it comes to the he said/she said part of the story, that will be hard to believe, given her recent nonsense. However, Bishop admitted to sexual mistakes and abused his position of authority, looking at things in a light most favorable to Bishop.
  14. No one expects you to see this (or admit it), as the fealty requirement over family has been seen as a negative thing by outsiders.
  15. I think this is the source of the problem. The church demands fealty to it, over family. Converts are lauded over their leaving family to join the church. The church governs marriage, wants church reminders to be placed all over the home, and takes up a lot of the members' free time. Leaders also remind members of how family that leave is somehow a loss of eternal significance. They want to make it as tough as possible on those who leave and their family. So, I don't know how this issue can be solved.
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