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Pete Ahlstrom

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About Pete Ahlstrom

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    Seasoned Member: Separates Light & Dark
  1. What would the church be without teams of apologists and members telling us how to disbelieve what we see and read?
  2. Well, if someone refuses to admit the obvious facts, does that change the facts into mere opinion? JFS had control over his great uncle's journal, the 1832 first vision account was removed and then put back only when it was clear the information would be released. It shows intent to withhold purposefully this information from the public. Plus it was "withheld" all along in the first presidency vault, again to make sure the public did not see it.
  3. Let's jump to my point. If a young member or new convert discovers withheld or hidden information, many times this person is shocked and dismayed, regardless if one says it was withheld or hidden. Withholding is still objectionable in this case.
  4. I don't know why the church just doesn't own up to hiding or de-emphasizing the troubling aspects of its history. It is perfectly natural to do so and people and organizations do it all the time. I don't agree with it and it is wrong in this case, but all too common. And people will forgive and move on. Another thing is that those pesky antis will have one less thing to criticize.
  5. If something is locked away in a vault, can it be said that it was mistakenly put there? The page(s) was deliberately excised from the diary, no? Then the excised page(s) was put into the vault. This sounds like it was deliberate and with intent to me.
  6. But if a motion in limine is granted, the jury or judge acts as if the evidence is hidden from view, right? This evidence that is withheld is also hidden from view of the fact finder as it were because it cannot be used in decision making.
  7. Spiritual hubris

    When I was an active member, I would routinely pray to have my mind opened so I could think properly, as objectively as possible (I know some don't think that is possible but with God ......). Anyway, my answer to this today is to use the brains that God gave you. Both the leader and non-leader ought to do so and both should do so while humbly recognizing the limits of human capacity and realizing that maybe we were meant to make these decisions ourselves without any outside force telling us what to do.
  8. Here is the definition of hide from dictionary.com: verb (used with object), hid, hidden or hid, hiding. 1. to conceal from sight; prevent from being seen or discovered: Where did she hide her jewels? 2. to obstruct the view of; cover up: The sun was hidden by the clouds. 3. to conceal from knowledge or exposure; keep secret: to hide one's feelings. I don't see how that is different from your definition of withhold. It seems to me that "to refrain from giving or granting" is the same thing as "to conceal from sight; prevent from being seen or discovered." In both cases the information is not allowed to be out in the open. Perhaps "withhold" sounds better than "hide?" Is this why you prefer "withhold" to "hide?"
  9. I think the age is a concern but wouldn't be as much if polygamy weren't involved. Even so, I don't think there were many 14 yr olds marrying 37 yr olds. My guess is that the evidence would show that this age difference was rare if not extremely rare.
  10. Do you think the uproar has anything to do with the use of the merchant's trick as you stated earlier or is it just the fact that 38 yr olds marrying 14 yr olds is very troubling to a lot of people, especially when the 38 yr old has many other wives already?
  11. I think the age issue in and of itself was not as scandalous if polygamy or polyandry weren't involved. The fact that he had more than one wife and that some of the wives were simultaneously married to other men is where the scandal lies. It looks like cheating being wrapped in religion. However, I am glad I don't have to put a young daughter into that nonsense.
  12. I can agree with that. However, I believe it was scandalous back then too, else why did Joseph Smith seek to hide it?
  13. What of some who want to deny that there was sex involved in JS's polygamous and polyandrous relationships, presentism?
  14. How about just 9 months after she turned 14? Why not say that?
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