Jump to content

Ouagadougou

Members
  • Content Count

    936
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

355 Excellent

About Ouagadougou

  • Rank
    Senior Member: Divides Heaven & Earth

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. Ouagadougou

    The Plan of Salvation: A Sufficient Theodicy

    Cool random story/comment..it looks like I struck a nerve. You went out of your way just to randomly show/tell me this and make such an "insulting" (what you think is insulting) comparison? Some Mormons trying to be insulting and on the edge is actually quite comical... If you are going to try and attack me personally, at least be a man about it, and use some foul language...and leave the poor innocent kid in the pic out of it. BTW, if my arguments are so "shoddy," why then does one of the leading scholars on American religious history (Richard Bushman) even say the following? "The dominant narrative is not true; it can’t be sustained."
  2. Ouagadougou

    The Plan of Salvation: A Sufficient Theodicy

    For me personally, my disbelief in the church wasn't just about social/ethical issues or some moral inconsistencies here or there; rather, it emerged primarily from several huge problems in the church's underlying narrative and truth claims, which, IMO, cannot be reconciled. Even Richard Bushman said the following: Richard Bushman: "I think that for the Church to remain strong it has to reconstruct its narrative. The dominant narrative is not true; it can’t be sustained. The Church has to absorb all this new information or it will be on very shaky grounds and that’s what it is trying to do and it will be a strain for a lot of people, older people especially. But I think it has to change." http://ldsanswers.org/dominant-church-history-narrative-not-true-lds-scholars-encourage-new-history-new-policy-new-church/ Likewise, I think "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" -- and as it relates to the church's truth claims -- I have arrived at my own conclusion that these claims are not true and that there is no reasonable evidence (other than feelings) to substantiate them. Based on the compilation of all of the major problems with the church's truth claims, I think when using Occam's Razor a person can reasonably come to his/her own conclusion that the church's truth claims are not what they are...and simply cannot be sustained or reconciled. For some people, relying on just warm and special feelings is not enough evidence or justification to support such extraordinary truth claims. Finally, I compare my disbelief in the church's truth claims to other fairytales, myths, or stories I once believed as a child. At one time as a child, I believed in myths or imaginary characters (as most of us did), but as I grew older, logic and science began to play an even more important role in coming to my own conclusions. I agree with Richard Bushman when he said: "The dominant narrative is not true; it can’t be sustained." For me it wasn't just about "moral intuitions and stances," or that church issues were "logically immoral;" rather, it was about the narrative itself not being compatible with science and logic; it's more about applying logic, reason, and science to how I view the world and any religious institution's claims, teachings, or policies.
  3. If I Google "moral panic," or "outrage" I bet it will probably show how many members are publically "panicking" over a movie poster because they think it is religious discrimination. Meanwhile, when it comes to innocent kids getting abused by leaders in the church, IMO, it isn't the same public "panic" or "outrage."
  4. Ouagadougou

    The Cosmic Score

    It also comes down to $...you can't enter the temple without paying tithing; 10% of my income just to enter the temple for a few hours? Hard pass for me...plus I like to drink tea. 😀
  5. I think it has happened more than enough (even within the LDS Churc) to warrant moral outrage. I just publically see members displaying more outrage over a movie poster...
  6. Ouagadougou

    The Cosmic Score

    No, I do not go to the temple; I probably go to church four to six times a year I would say at this point, mainly for utilitarian purposes. That is, I think most LDS members are good people and strive to live a clean life, so attending when I feel like it can maybe be a benefit; however, I don't accept most of the church's truth claims. Furthermore, I have attended the temple (many times) in the past, but feel that temple work is just, in a way, busy work to keep members preoccupied. Some members really enjoy the temple, so I don't want to paint a picture that it is all bad, I just have a different opinion. I think my energy and time are of more value if directed toward those alive today who are in need of assistance; I try to help out at homeless shelters or soup kitchens. Finally, I personally gain more spiritually when I spend time in nature, or by meditating, or doing something with my family than going to the temple. For me, the concept of a "temple" is now a state of mind and not an actual place.
  7. Ouagadougou

    New Announcement on Youth and Primary Progression

    It almost seems that President Nelson is like the new President McKay of his time -- in that he is implementing a lot of change thus far.
  8. Ouagadougou

    The Cosmic Score

    There are way more refugees in the world than there are members of the LDS church; this is the reality of the world today. IMO, the church is very small on the global scale--and as you pointed out in your post--just .027% of humanity are technically considered "exaltable." I personally don't worry about "exaltation" or temple work for those who are dead, because I think there so many people alive today that are in need of our help. https://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html
  9. Ouagadougou

    A (Potentially) Interesting Thought Exercise

    I question everything in life...it's not just the LDS Church. I question things political/religious leaders, bosses or even family members and friends say...100%! Of course I think it's important to question things...I want to look at life with my own lense, not with some narrow view the church or anyone wants me to see it through. I guess I am not afraid to express my own views and come to my own conclusions. I don't think there is much freedom of thought and expression within the LDS Church (and in other religions), especially publically. I know members who are afraid to publically admit they don't believe a certain historical claim (that the church wants them to believe) because their might be consequences. The moment you don't align publically with what the brethern want you to believe (even if what you believe is true), then you could be reprimanded.
  10. In Utah (and in LDS communities around the world) is there more public outrage from members over such terrible sexual conduct (by leaders in positions of trust/power) or over a Deadpool poster? https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/12/12/online-petition-claims/ Do you think the LDS cultural/community needs to do more publically to address this difficult and disgusting issue of abuse within the church? BTW, I want to point out that I am not trying to be smug or disrespectful, I think that LDS members do want to protect their own, but I am interested about the cultural aspects behind how members react to certain events/issues. I think it is good that you brought this difficult topic/story up, especially because I think, at times, some people might want to just sweep it under the rug and not discuss it at all.
  11. Ouagadougou

    A (Potentially) Interesting Thought Exercise

    Don't talk about or share historical facts publically that might cast the church in a negative light? For a church that claims to be the ONLY true church on earth, I think it makes them (leaders) look insecure and desperate when they have to worry about what members are posting on their social media accounts or blogs, especially if the criticism is true. Criticism, IMO, can be a powerful tool for any institution to help it and its leaders grow. IMO, you are only really free to express your true beliefs in the church publically (without any repercussions), as long as they align with what the church wants; I think the overarching theme is, follow the leaders...and let them do the thinking for you. "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done." https://www.fairmormon.org/archive/publications/when-the-prophet-speaks-is-the-thinking-done
  12. Ouagadougou

    A (Potentially) Interesting Thought Exercise

    I personally know people who have been called in to talk with the bishop because of things they have shared or said online (and it wasn't even too critical about the church, but it was true and made the church, in a way, look unfavorable). And here you have the thought police; if the church's narrative is true and they (leaders) are truly the Lord's anointed, then why even care about a "public fuss?" Are they that sensitive and the narrative that fragile that no public criticism is allowed? Doesn't a bishop have more important things to worry about than someone's social media account or blog?
  13. Ouagadougou

    A (Potentially) Interesting Thought Exercise

    When you can't even criticize church leaders, who, at times, speak as men, isn't that very problematic, especially since you are restricting freedom of thought and expression? Leaders who can't accept certain criticism, IMO, are not the strongest of leaders, because they always have to be right/validated. Why do you think many use a pseudonym or don't express some of their ideas/beliefs publicly? IMO, it often happens because of the censorship and thought control in the church; the moment you don't publically align with the brethren or believe a certain principle, you can be called into the bishop's office for a face-to-face interview (not always the case but it happens). For example, if you publically call into question a particular church issue, doctrine, or leader (even if a valid concern), you can be reprimanded; and this doesn't sit well with a lot of members today when it relates to excommunications. "According to Knoll, the results showed that almost three in five church members — 57 percent — are bothered by the punitive church discipline. Approximately 26 percent are very troubled and 31 percent are somewhat troubled. Among millennials, 66 percent reported being troubled." https://kutv.com/news/local/survey-commitment-of-of-lds-church-members-chilled-by-high-profile-excommunications Moreover, you could argue that church leaders (apostles/prophets) can also "spout off on whatever they want precisely" because if they are wrong, they were just speaking as men, so they are just protected by their position in the church, IMO.
  14. Ouagadougou

    Evolution

    Not just fossils but: "Millions of stone tools, figurines and paintings, footprints, and other traces of human behavior in the prehistoric record tell about where and how early humans lived and when certain technological innovations were invented." There is TONS of evidence that proves this (outside of faith).
  15. Ouagadougou

    Evolution

    Please tell me you are joking...CFR that it is "pie-in-the-sky nonsense to many leading scientists." "Evidence of Evolution" "Scientists have discovered a wealth of evidence concerning human evolution, and this evidence comes in many forms. Thousands of human fossils enable researchers and students to study the changes that occurred in brain and body size, locomotion, diet, and other aspects regarding the way of life of early human species over the past 6 million years. Millions of stone tools, figurines and paintings, footprints, and other traces of human behavior in the prehistoric record tell about where and how early humans lived and when certain technological innovations were invented. Study of human genetics show how closely related we are to other primates – in fact, how connected we are with all other organisms – and can indicate the prehistoric migrations of our species, Homo sapiens, all over the world. Advances in the dating of fossils and artifacts help determine the age of those remains, which contributes to the big picture of when different milestones in becoming human evolved." http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-family-tree
×