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Bill "Papa" Lee

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About Bill "Papa" Lee

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    Actually joined Feb 7, 2007...TBM Here!
  • Birthday 05/31/1957

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    Atlanta, Georgia
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  1. I was speaking of the Church in this, or, our day.
  2. I do not doubt what Jesus Christ did, but in our day some still believe that persons with mental disorders are possessed. We as a Church believe in modern day remedies to many such disabilities. Demon possession is unheard of in the history of the Church, meaning the LDS Church.
  3. Note to revise, I believe in such things mentioned in the Bible, Book of Mormon, when in the hands of those called to use them. When I say, "I don't believe in magic", it does not mean I don't believe in the "supernatural", I do not view what God can do, or Priesthood blessings can do, because I do not see such things as magic. I "hope" that if given such other items would work for me and I would have the faith. But I believe that only the items listed in scripture exist, and can only work for those called to use them. So I only believe in such things in a very limited definition, but not in the hands of anyone else.
  4. No, I do get the point, and I pointed out that such things are spoken of in the Bible. I am saying that such things in my hands, would not have the same power or purpose. Because I do not believe these things have power, for me...I do not dismiss that such things have power in the hands of others.
  5. I believe that others strongly believe in such things, and I believe the Bible and that such things exist in some form, but I have no evidence. For example "Joseph's Seer Stone", maybe it worked for Joseph, but in my hand it would be nothing more than a rock. Or more to the point it is "just a rock".
  6. While reading another thread, something caught my eye, as it has so many times before. Often in the arena of, "Religious Debate", different posters discuss what they do, or don't believe. I wanted to address this in a different thread, and to make clear that, I don't believe in "Magic, the Occult, in Orcales, or Talismans". I often visit and debate no-mo's, or never-mo's who level accusations at the early Church and Joseph Smith. This often leads to me asking a series of questions, such as... Do you believe in magic? The answer is always no, which seems odd, as so much of anti-Mormon attacks suggest that Joseph was influenced through magic. What this means is that since Joseph believed in magic, that is all that matters. Do you believe in the occult? Some reply yes, others no, some make the same arguments as the question concerning magic. Such debates end up with comments about "Occult Symbols", which begs the question; Who decides if a symbol is "Holy" and which symbol is an "Occult" symbol? One symbol is found on many early Christian Churches, then someone declared it (them) an occult symbol;s). Symbols that are on at least two Temples we have today. So, I do not need (I hope) to list every word or symbol, to make the overall point. Which is, "if" these items have no power, then 1) They could not have added the Prophet Joseph Smith in the foundation of the Church, the Book of Mormon, and all of his revealations, and 2) If these things are nothing more than "folklore", then what is the debate over? I will point out that there is evidence (scriptural), of "New Names" and "White Rocks", or "Seer Stones" and the U&T. So whatever these things are that are mentioned in Scripture, more specific, The Bible...when and how did they become connected to the "Occult". Just one last example, so many things, including "demonic possession", ideas widely in scripture and in the early Christian Church, are now known to be mental disorders. Do we have to believe in "old world" ideas about folklore to debate those who makes such claims about the Church? Or, should any such allegations be dismissed by any who seek to make such links?
  7. Abuse among men, as adults or children

    This is without a doubt an interesting and perplexing issue. In the early part of my life I cam from a broken home, this was due to a floundering bio-father. Which later became a stable home environment, so I cannot speak from any personal experience in the home. Outside the home is a different matter, my first was while in the Army. I had a female Drill Sargent, and two male Drill Sargents, which made for very difficult interactions. Comments, and behaviors were vulgar, which made for some difficult moments for this "adopted son" of a Minister. One day early on, I had heard and seen enough and we had a "come to Jesus meeting", in a very public way! I paid a price for this, but not for long as I pushed back. Circumstances such as this continued for my eight years in the Army, and each time I able to handle it with a little more decorum (hope I spelled this correctly), as those I served with on both sides of the Atlantic soon found out that I had little use for such behavior. Rest assured, during my eight years of Army service, if I were not committed to my wife and family there would have been countless opportunities to "prey, or be preyed upon". All of that pales in comparison to the many events where I observed abuse as a Police Officer. Men beating or sexually assaulting women, and women (to a lesser degree) doing the same to men. It is so difficult to see so many at their worst, it begins to drag a person down. Even more difficult are the many opportunities for the same behaviors to happen within the lives of other officers. For myself, at times it was like a war ragging within myself, or as the Apostle Paul said, "waring within my members". The innumerable circumstances that availed themselves for myself and others to cross lines, or at the least blur those lines. For some of my fellow officers, or later on "my officers" (when I was supervisor and chief), they lost their way, their marriages and even their careers. Throughout my entire adult life, I would not even have lunch alone with female officers or secretaries, unless I invited others to attend. The more difficult part was visiting the homes of those needed police assistance, and even when doing and working in Inspections as I got older. So often it would be you and a single woman, or housewives, and feeling harmed by those that should love them, and there you (I) are being kind. It was like walking in a land mine, as you are trying to tiptoe out as soon as you could. Then there were the nightclubs, houses of prostitution, were victims of such abuse growing up, are now acting out those same abusing as adults. I thank God, that after 23 years, that I escaped with my soul in tact. I also praise him that I never had to experience any such abuses as a child.
  8. On a lighter note...I am Scot-Irish, so does "red facial hair" count? It almost all white now, but there was a time.
  9. My guess is that my bio-father leaving us abandoned and homeless for a time, compels me to never be like him. That coupled with the amazing man who adopted my siblings and myself, teaching me what unconditional love really means. I do try to be the best husband and father, to my oldest daughter whom I adopted, and the three Pam and I had together, and one baby lost. They are all what I have invested my entire life too, so I cannot fail them. But, at times you (I) wonder have I given enough, done enough, loved enough, and taught enough? They are all here today, minus one...who could not make it. I love Sunday's when all are here, each weekend many of the Grandbabies argue to see who get to stay with Nanny and Papa. This Friday and Saturday night we had three staying with us. It is the same every time school is out, now we have another baby on the way. As to you last line, I do believe that as any good father would do, God our Father will do the best he can with all of his children. After all it is his mission, "To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life or (all) man". So even if men, or their institutions are lacking, "He" is not!
  10. Amen, his Grace is sufficient, and there is no "limited atonement", as Calvin taught. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son", (Yeshua, Joshua, JEHOVAH, Jesus Christ) to atone for the sins of all mankind. This "gift" is freely given, and available to all who accept it, and to the repentant wherever, and whenever they may be. For in the final days, "every knee shall bow, and every tounge confess, that Jesus is the Christ". It is through his Grace that we are made perfect, and able to enter into the presence of God our Father (Elohim), and there have our families sealed for "everlasting to everlasting". Of course I speak of faith, but that faith is all I have, and all that I need. I am a believer, and make no apology for living and loving those in whom God has placed his trust. Therefore, I will not fail my wife, my children, my grandchildren, and all future generations to come! They are mine, and with my many imperfections, if I can love them "as I do", most certainly does a perfect God, love them even more!
  11. Except we would also have to embrace the other aspects of Calvinism, that deny free-will, and the ability to freely choose Jesus Christ and salvation. This idea is repugnant to our entire belief system.
  12. Question, I find that I gave this quote more weight, since I thought Joseph said it. Is it equally true now that it is not?