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Bill "Papa" Lee

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About Bill "Papa" Lee

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    Actually joined Feb 7, 2007...TBM Here!
  • Birthday 05/31/1957

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    Atlanta, Georgia
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  1. Thomas S Monson cars

    He was a best selling author, but to your comment in "green", who said he did not get a salary? Also it is considered bad form to the post of someone else, even if only in font size.
  2. Did anyone else get a Pro-Islam PM, here at Christmas?

    Let's just hope, not following me over cliff.
  3. Utah Governor Task Force to Address Teen Suicide

    Such things are tragic no matter where or why they occur. One thing that aids and adds to young people taking their lives, is the lack of life experience. Those who are older, have a perspective that problems, and difficult times can and often change, as the one true constant in life is change. But, for the young, they often have no hope, believing that their problems will never change. It is wonderful that the State of Utah and the Church are both involved in this task force. Without even knowing, many speak privately and publicly blaming the Church for it's positions of certain issues. Writing articles, or threads on websites about how young people cannot discuss issues with their parents. Such ideas and comments are failings within the home, more than within any particular Faith. As almost every Faith teaches against sins enumerated in the scriptures, and preach and teach from their respective pulpits concerning their views. But other than a few teach also of repentance and that no matter the issue, life is the most valuable of all things. There are extreme views held by some belief systems that not only teach that death is a proper punishment, but will kill those who are found out. Suicide has always been an epidemic among the young, in every Country, State, and Faith. I am just grateful that it is being addressed, and addressed vigorously in Utah, and within the Church today. Here in the "Bible Belt", few would be surprised that it is an issue. Much of that is due to the fact that from one Church building to the next, no one knows anything going on behind their doors, nor in their homes. If there is one thing cherished above all else, second only to Jesus Christ, it is complete autonomy, from every other Church, even though they all claim the same denomination. Within a six mile radius around my home there are at least 20+ Churches, most are Baptists, the denomination I grew up in, and none know what the other is doing, or the internal issues they might be dealing with. Two such Churches used to share a parking lot, because it was once a single room Church and the other building was like our "cultural hall". But after a falling out, a fence went up between the two building. Each independent Church now has about 6-8 cars each every Sunday. I have often heard here; why the need for "organized" religions? The why, is because of the strength that comes from having that unity. My pray is that some good, and good results come out of this task force. There are just too many children dying at their own hands, as even one is just too many!
  4. Did anyone else get a Pro-Islam PM, here at Christmas?

    When you say "following you", do you mean like people do on Facebook? I often find people following me from (at least by name) the Middle East. Or in many cases just one or two who just rearrange their names or spelling. Or, are there people who do so on this website? If so, I never knew that was possible.
  5. Did anyone else get a Pro-Islam PM, here at Christmas?

    I could send you one, but I am very pro-Mormon, and know little about Islam. But that way you won't feel left out. I am not sure, can a PM be forwarded? If so, it would allow you to take a look. The one who posted it, did a really good job of quoting all scripture.
  6. Divine Love Is Conditional

    And so it begins, the comments out of context. Other comments within the same address and the supporting scriptures that define those comments. Rather than (again) giving the full context, of what is being described as President Nelson's beliefs, and the hope that he no longer believes in this "narrowly defined, idea of conditional love". It is not President Nelson who believes (well being scriptural, I hope he does) or fosters this, doctrine of both God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. The scriptures noted in this sermon, and many others, make it clear that God loves all without condition, as parents do their children (or this is the hope of God and children everywhere), with perfect love, but not with the perfect accepting of their sins. For God, who is always loving of His child, or children, God however "loves the sinner (or his child) but hates the sin", thus perfect love, carries with it perfect punishment with or for unresolved sins. His love was so unconditional, that He sent His "Only Begotten", as the perfect expression of that perfect love. He did this, because (simply) someone had to pay for sin, despite "unconditional love", as so many wish to give it a name. Now despite the 66 books of the Bible, the books of the Book of Mormon, the 138 chapters of the Doctrine and Coventants, somehow these views are now President Nelson's views? Or to be blunt, two weeks ago this talk would have barely been noticed, or warrant a hick up. Now that he is Prophet and President, people are dusting off their mining tools to go "quote mining". All in n effort to dig comments up, use large font set, so that others might share the view of the poster, or "Thread Author". What a shame, what a shame.
  7. Who Am I to judge?

    I understand the point you are seeking to make, and one thing that age teaches us (me) is to look at others with "soft eyes, understanding eyes). Having said that we are forced to make judgements of people and things everyday. The warning given us, is that "with what manor judgement ye judge, so it will be measured unto to you". (To paraphrase)
  8. My guess, it might be the same. All I know is that I don't have th skill sets for such a calling. My opinion is, if the Lord wishes it, and the Sisters are willing, then "let it be" (too quote an old Beatles song). Myself and most I know would be happy to sit out all of our usual callings and let our Sisters do what they wish. My guess however is Sunday dinners, and all other things that are surrounded around the "family unit", coming home to TV dinners, and peanut and jelly sandwiches will grow old quickly. To this day, my wif he had to spend three weeks in the hospital, (again to this day) our two oldest with not bet, nearly and bean from a can, no t peanut and Jelly sandwiches, and will not drink grape koolaid. There is also oat meant and many of cereals they still will not eat. Either way, if the Lord is OK with it, I am OK with it.
  9. It is true, most women see motherhood and being wives as very fulfilling. Sadly some view it as,them being second class citizens. Priesthood callings are calling of servitude, not superiority. Countless predawn meetings (depending on meetings schedules), endless meetings about becoming "better servants". The endless searching for classroom, when other activities are scheduled, as those who attend Priesthood meetings, have no assigned rooms, or as were we no (to quote scripture) "no place to lay our heads". I remember the first day I had been called to serve in the Bishopric, from the very early calling meeting, and when I returned home, was 11 hours. No cell phones then (or I did not have one) I had to call from Church, and members homes that I was asked to go to. That day was not a typical day, as every Sunday was a min of 6-8 hours. I was a servant, not a slaveowner, not exalted, but made low, no Sunday naps, but Sunday maps. Maps that had we visiting members at the request of the Bishop, as he and the other counselor were doing. Often missing Sunday dinner with my family. Awful disciplinary courts, where I could never share with my wife, of such difficult moments. PPI's, Leadership Council meetings, barely at sunrise, after 1 1/2 hour Bushopric meetings. So very often barely able to pull myself from bed on Monday mornings. Well, enough said on that topic at least.
  10. Over my 39 years of membership, I have always taken note and tried to remember, as well as many re-reads, of the "now" five President's comments. These days, it is not my long term memory that suffers, but my short term memory. Each in their own way, and most outright have noted the contemplation of their, or such callings. President Spencer W Kimball, spoke of when he received his calling as an Apostle, that for (I believe 84 nights, as calls where handled differently in those today), he would pray each night, very often falling asleep on his knees that he might be equal to his calling. A fact that must worry those who have a day or two to wrap their minds around it now. I remember the very day that President Hicnkly died, it was during our Stake Conference, the once a year meeting where General Authorities speak via special broadcasts. On that day, the very polished and glib, President Monson, was visibly, "out of character". I turned to my wife, and told her that something was wrong. He was also looking up at the wall, it would seem at a clock. He was also apologizing to someone in the Navy, 60 or 70 years ago, whom he did not if he was even alive, and apologizing to those in the Church for not sharing the Gospel, as he felt he should. Now we know that he had rushed over from the President's bedside, and was eagerly wanting to get back their, to see his long time friend and mentor. More than one have made this clear, President Gordon B Hicnkly, once said that anyone who hopes for such a calling and the responsibility that follows, (hope I quote it perfectly) "needs to have their heads examined". The calling of becoming an Apostle, means (in many cases) leaving their professions, or hopes of travel with "family only", or other pursuits. These men do not even have the hope as does a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, who become Emeritus at the age of 70, and then enjoying "retirement", if you can call it this. As they are always called to teach, accepting invitations to speak, and always sitting on the "stand", seldom ever beside their wives. Today, some have spoken of reasons they think that one is called and another released. However released is a poor word, as all are still Apostles, we will still hear from them at every General Conference, this because they have gone nowhere, and will serve their entire lives. Not to mention they too may one day become President of the Church. Having said this, when someone is called to be an Apostle, there views on Church Doctrine are well known, and there will be no surprises. There might be polices of the Church that change (as in the age of missionaries), but rarely Church Doctrine. Some have even noted that it might be about, "Gay issues". In fact so much of what occupies almost everything (as of late) has too do with threads, and posts , about how some may view such issues. As President Nelson pointed out today, the focus is on "The Living Christ", the "document that is published" and the doctrine of that which is reality, and of the atonement's, availability to all who seek it out. As King Lomoni's father (again I pray I spelled his name correctly), "I will give away all of my sins that I my know Thee". (I also pray I quoted this correctly)? To another question that this is and will always remain, the core doctrine of The Church. The change in the First Presidency, is not because a counselor, might go rouge. I do not know why this change happened. But such changes have happened many times before. But what made President Nelson to make such a change, I do not know, nor will anyone speak of, or teach of it in General Conference. But also, despite my love for this former counselor, I have faith, in the "Faith", and the wisdom in that decision. It is my opinion that President Oaks, just as President Monson and President Hinckly, before him who all served in the while Presidents of the Quorum of the Twelve, in the First Presidency, were there because it was the will of the Lord, and agreed to by all the sitting Apostles. It also seems that such things have happened in the last three Presidencies so changes (in the death of a Prophet, God forbid) will give continuity, during times of change. Also, I am bewildered by the angst of our dear sisters who were unpleased, based on the idea that being wives and mothers is somehow a demeaning role within the Church. It is not just an identifier, but a sacred calling, a calling that no one else could perform, no matter the circumstance. Were it not for my dear wife, I would not be here to post this, my oldest and youngest would have never served missions, service that has blessed the lives of so many families and generations to come. Anyway, and thoughts? Oh, at sorry for any misspellings or ramblings.
  11. New First Presidency

    I understand, when President Hinckley passed away, I was praying to God for a recount.
  12. New First Presidency

    It may not make sense to many, but the last two Presidents of the Church, we're both serving in the First Presidency when the (then) President passed away. It is more common than one might think. There may be other examples, I just can't remember when or what they are. I am sure many here can give more examples, if there be any.
  13. New First Presidency

    Usually when people talk about becoming more "conservative", they mean that the Church or others are resistant to change. Based on a number of people and comments here, they speak of change, and are resistant to it themselves. Quite the paradox, I would think. How would any of us know what is discussed behind the scenes, or closed doors?
  14. New First Presidency

    I think we are overthinking this issue. This has happened many times, where someone would return to the "Twelve". Based on President Nelson's age, it would seem that a move for President Oaks, makes a lot of sense. Unless President Nelson plans to live to be 100+ years of age. This way, just as with President Monson, Elder Oak's will have already become a common fixture in the First Presidecy, when President Nelson passes on. Movement in the Quorum of the Tweleve and First Presidency as counselors are "lateral moves, not vertical". No one has been demoted.
  15. I erased much of what you wrote. Not because it was not valid, but to give the mods less to do, as they have to reread every word to ensure someone did not slip in something objectionable. Your comments are (are were) spot on! Their goal and focus was to discuss what he "didn't do", or what they thought he should do instead of all "he did do". I got involved in the discussion in the newspaper part, or comments. Respect and good manners, the hallmark of this website was of course not the norm there. So, I had to endure many terribly harsh comments, most from from people living in Utah, because the SL Trib, had published the article as well. This of course allowed a large number of people to use the "C word", over and over and over again. You know the "C" word, "Cult". Certainly not all believed we were a cult, just because we were behind the times on Gay marriage, but it was the angriest and most vocal group. Anyway, nuff said.