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Bill "Papa" Lee

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About Bill "Papa" Lee

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    Actually joined Feb 7, 2007...TBM Here!
  • Birthday 05/31/1957

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    Atlanta, Georgia
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  1. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Are we as a people living this creed?

    Nephi's words wer suggesting or making clear that God has not spoken only to those of the Bible, that he can speak to anyone. Are you suggesting that his words mean something different?
  2. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Grace vs Works, and those who misrepresent the facts.

    You are right, it is a strange question. So help me navigate where that question is going?
  3. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Grace vs Works, and those who misrepresent the facts.

    Facts are truth, and truth has only one version, there are no "versions" of facts.
  4. Recently I have learned how to post Facebook posts here, so often like my recent poem it says to "Click more", to see it all. Anyway, I thought this might be a good topic to comment on... "Darkness, the truest darkness, is not the absence of light, it is the conviction that the light will never return. But the light always returns, to show us things familiar, home, family, and things entirely new, or long overlooked. It shows us new possibilities and challenges us to pursue them.." These of course are not my words, they come from a movie, of all places, but no matter the source we should...as the listed AoF, suggests. The Apostle Paul taught in Philippians 4:8, "Finally, Brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." One of the tenants and teachings of my Faith is listed in the 13th Article of Faith, states the following... "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and doing good to all men; indeed, we may say we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things". Herein ends the lesson...so please add your thoughts (your kind thoughts) that others may also learn. Also in my 61+ years, I have learned that when we make the effort to comment, and give pause to think what comments that would edify others, then we also learn, and learn from the source of all knowledge. Any thoughts?
  5. Bill "Papa" Lee

    When we fail to forgive, we fail to live...take a look.

    So true, there is an old saying; "Half of the people we hate or won't forgive don't care, the other half don't know". When we don't forgiv we remain stuck in the past, or the very moment, with the hurt or the horror. Jesus came to forgive all, and to set us free from the bondage of that hurt or horror. Forgiving is not just a gift to those we forgive, but a gift too ourselves, setting us free at long last. Also forgiving someone who has harmed us, does not require us to give them access to harm us again, unless they have truly repented, fen then we should proceed with caution, if it is (or was) physical or sexual abuse as a child. I have learned to forgive quickly, because I too long to be forgiven. Because like most my sins and weaknesses are "legion". I am not a wicked man by Biblical standards, but I still loose my temper, struggle with anger far too often, and envy those who can still work, and like all men and women struggle to "varnish my thoughts unceasingly with virtue". This is why I rejoice at God's grace, and why in the eternities, I am hoping more for mercy, than for justice. Since I could never know and remember my every sin, I am going to throw myself on the mercy of the court, and rely on the promise of Christ's Atonement and Grace. For without it, I am lost! Due to injuries, health issues such as Diabities, Sarcordsis (don't know how to spell it) and a family history of heart problems (seeing a Physician for it right now), I don't think really old age is in the cards. So, more and more, Grace is foremost on my mind.
  6. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Grace vs Works, and those who misrepresent the facts.

    "Free in Christ" Question; Why do those who have different opinions of "Salvation by Grace", so often quote a few scriptures, and usually bold type or change font size, to the exclusion of all other scripture? Also, it seems as if those who do so are shouting at other posters. I am not suggesting that you are doing so, "shouting" (as I do not know you). But Evangelicals do this so very often to those who are Mormon on this and many other websites. Having said this, John 3:16, and other scriptures out of context are not the entire Gospel. Also, no Mormon believes that he or she can save themselves by works alone, or at all. Without the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ we are, as Paul said, "we all men most miserable".
  7. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Man seeing God

    Many quote the verse(s) in various scriptures to support the claim that "there shall be no man see me (God) and live". (Exodus 33:20) But in the same chapter just eight scriptures back it says, "The Lord spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto a friend.." (Exdous 33:11). Also Jacob (Israel) also saw God (as you pointed out), as well as "Seventy of the Elders of Israel"; Sound familiar? Also in John 1:18, it does say "no man hath seen God at any time", But in John 6:46, it clarifies that only "...those of God hath seen the Father...". Please forgive any errors, I am quoting from memorey, and my studies over many years. Hope this helps... Bill
  8. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Grace vs Works, and those who misrepresent the facts.

    One of, if not "the" greatest Christian apologist, taught that Grace and Works, are to blades of the same scissors. I would suggest they are two sides of the same coin, and that coin is the price of entering into God's greatest blessings and rewards.
  9. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Grace vs Works, and those who misrepresent the facts.

    Wait! I beg to differ, surely you are not Krytonian.
  10. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Grace vs Works, and those who misrepresent the facts.

    I was Baptist, and my Father a Baptist minister, I love Baptist people. I did not leave out of discontentment or anger, I left because I believe this is where God both needed me and was leading me.
  11. Bill "Papa" Lee

    Grace vs Works, and those who misrepresent the facts.

    Was my definition of "general salvation", not sufficient?
  12. Recently in a different thread concerning the Atonement , a former member recoiled at the idea that God, Jesus Christ requires anything from any one to be saved. He, or she, (not sure which) spoke of salvation as a "free gift". It is indeed a free gift, when we speak of general salvation. But even then for any continuing reward, we must first believe, and then accept this "free gift". Believing and accepting are works themselves, although many deny this truth (including the poster mentioned). In fact believing, and continuing to believe through all the trials of life, may be (and is) probably the most difficult of all works. Too remain steadfast and believe, is an arduous struggle that seems impossible under the weight of either science, or sudo-science, which is exhausting, especially with the constant push by non-believer. The thousands of classless jokes on late night talk shows, on award shows, and social media. Also the scriptures are clear, that as soon as someone's believes there are countless commandments given in (for now), "Biblical Scripture", for those reading, and for those who are LDS, countless commandments in LDS canon. So thoughts for LDS posters, if you wish... what are your thoughts, or lists of "Works"?
  13. Bill "Papa" Lee

    When we fail to forgive, we fail to live...take a look.

    Thank You...rep point +1
  14. Bill "Papa" Lee

    When we fail to forgive, we fail to live...take a look.

    Thank You, I am reluctant to share too much. I do not want to seem proud or to boast. When my Mother asked me to write this she told me of a brother and sister (true siblings) who, although they attended the same one room Church had not spoken in 20 years. This was a true story, but she also knew that I needed to forgive my bio-father. So when she asked for it, it was on Saturday, then she told me, ,pray about it, and I would like to have it by tomorrow, but I can wait until next Sunday. I told her, Mama...I am not a poetry machine, her reply was, "no problem, you are a righteous man and you believe in pray. You can do this". So, I did.
  15. First of all, any child or young adult, or for any adult is a tragedy. As such "EVERY" effort should be made to curb this epidemic, no matter the cost or cause. However recently efforts have been made to suggest that Homosexuality and our Faith are why Utah is number five in the U.S., and it!s territories, are the primary blame. However studies have shown that "High Altitudes" are a contributing factor, as one thread here pointed out recently. Also it is highest among Whites and Indians, than any most other groups. The Church should make every effort to understand the problem, and have also donated $25,000 to local Gay groups to help with counseling, which is proper and Christlike. Many have suggested that the Church's policies on Homosexuality are primarily to blame, but if it is the doctrines of the Church that is to blame, why is Utah 5th? When it comes to other Faith's we pale in comparison to the extreme hard line of other Faith's. In fact many Evangelical Churches have started call Mormonism, "Gay loving". The important question is why aren't all Christian Faiths, loving of all? It is not just our doctrines that cause those who are Gay to believe that such feelings and actions are outside the norm, but the multimillions of people of Faith, and those with no faith who live differently. (Case in point, number 1) When a member of my local Bishop (I was a member of the Bishopric) a single brother who was socially awkward and a member who was the representative of the "Single Adults", complained every Sunday in Ward Counsel, that he felt left out because 90% of the adults in the Ward were married and had children. I made sure to never speak out concerning his remarks, then one Sunday, the Bishop asked; how can we make Brother X (not going to list his name) feel more a part of the Ward and Stake? My reply was quick, we have tried for over a year to do everything in our power to make him feel a part, but his primary complaint is how many married with children are members of the Ward, so what do you suggest? He won't attend the Sungle Adult group, he seldom goes to any activities, what are we to do? Should we all divorce to make him feel better? Of course my Bishop told me I don't have the right attitude. What are we to do as a Church, and as a society, stop being heterosexual, so others no longer feel differently? (Second case in point, number 2) 90% or more of the world is heterosexual, by contrast those who are not will always see this, and will see and feel differently, and there is nothing that can be done about. My countless friends who are African American, as upset and even angry that their plight has been linked with the Gay Movement. They point out all the time that they "cannot hide", they "cannot pretend not be Black", they "have no closet in which to hide". More importantly, their skin color is not listed in scripture as sinful, (although our Faith and others have tried to claim so). Also the allowance of them being allowed to hold the Priesthood is the "righting of a wrong", as well as the many apologies given to them by other Faiths. However Homosexual acts are condemn in both the Old and New Testements, books, espistles and scripture all upon which we believe and profess that their is a God. As such, our Church is bound by those scriptures and teachings, no matter how many podcasts are floating around in cyberspace. I have a Gay child, and like any parent, because I love that child I want God to pardon her choices. Just as I would love that God would pardon my choices and weaknesses without repentance. (Case in point, number 3) I have someone very close to me, who feels that he just cannot be content with just one woman, and that God made him that way. In short, he believes that he was born that way, and feels his excommunication is unfair, and that his wife and the Church should make an exception. Now, I am not talking about polygamy, and being sealed to others, or married to them, he does not want that hassle. He just wants the world, the Church and scripture to accept the condition of his birth. That should be enough, so...thoughts? Please forgive any errors, long posts are difficult for me.