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Rajah Manchou

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About Rajah Manchou

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  1. Have you ever looked into the accounts from the Cochin Jews in India and the Lemba Jews in Zimbabwe? Both groups talk about a similar migration from Jerusalem to a place called Sena [1] along the same trail in the same time period. The similarities between their accounts and the Book of Mormon are striking. ----- [1] Sena was a thriving Jewish city at the time of the Babylonian empire around 500 BC, and is believed to have been dominated by Israelites who had fled Jerusalem during the Babylonian invasion.
  2. In other words, key to the Mesoamerican model is a small group of 30-50 individuals of Middle/Near Eastern descent coming into a population of millions in North America. That's a pretty big problem. Identification of the inhabitants of the islands of the sea and the American Indians as Lamanites has been discussed since the early church. There are countless statements on the relationship. Here are two of many: "I should like to address my remarks to you, our kinsmen of the isles of the sea and the Americas. Millions of you have blood relatively unmixed with gentile nations. Columbus called you `Indians,’ thinking he had reached the East Indies. Millions of you are descendants of Spaniards and Indians, and are termed mestizos, and are called after your countries, for instance: Mexicans in Mexico; Guatemalans in Guatemala; Chilianos in Chile. You Polynesians of the Pacific are called Samoan or Maori, Tahitian or Hawaiian, according to your islands. There are probably sixty million of you on the two continents and on the Pacific Islands, all related by blood ties. The Lord calls you Lamanites." - Spencer W. Kimball "The term Lamanite includes all Indians and Indian mixtures, such as the Polynesians, the Guatemalans, the Peruvians, as well as the Sioux, the Apache, the Mohawk, the Navajo, and others. It is a large group of great people...There are no blessings, of all the imaginable ones, to which you are not entitled–you, the Lamanites–when you are righteous. You are of royal blood, the children of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and Lehi." - Spencer W. Kimball I think you're getting hung up on anachronistic terms (Malaysia, Thailand, Thai) that make the model feel foreign and distant. Something like the Island of the Sea Model would make more sense. The former inhabitants of Southeast Asia, the Malay Archipelago up the Pacific Rim across the Pacific Islands and into the Americas share the same DNA. In an unexpected way, the Book of Mormon is historically accurate and all the D&C prophesies are correct, we've just got the geography backwards.
  3. I see it differently. The Heartland and Mesoamerican models have an insurmountable problem, the Native Americans referred to as Lamanites in the D&C prophecies are verifiably of Asian descent, not Israelite. The Asian model has no problem explaining how Asians got to the borders of the Lamanites.
  4. There isn't just one New Jerusalem: Why Do the Prophets Speak of Multiple Jerusalems? We're not even entirely sure what is meant by the term New Jerusalem. Regardless, an officially recognized remnant of the Tribe of Manasseh is building a New Jerusalem in their corner of the world. If they succeed in fulfilling the spirit of the law, I'm certain it will be easy to reconcile the insignificant letters.
  5. Why would you need to scrap the 10th Article of Faith? Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built by the remnant of the Tribe of Menasseh. Some presently live in a small stretch of land between Bangladesh and Myanmar called Zoram. Zom or Zomi, is the tribal name of these people. Coincidentally, Joseph Smith claimed the original term for Zion was Zom, and he etched the word Zom on a tree growing over the cornerstone of the temple plot in Independence, Missouri.
  6. The sea voyages across the Pacific and Atlantic are a big problem for the Mesoamerican, South American and Great Lakes models. If not the biggest problems. The Asian model doesn't take for granted that sea voyages from the Arabian Sea to the Americas were possible previous to the 5th century BC. It is however certain that these migrations were possible to the Malay Archipelago, and there's evidence that three BoM-like voyages took place at the right times: Grandson of Noah named Amur leads a group called the Kumr from the Arabian Sea to the Malay Peninsula in boats resembling Noah's Ark. Supported by accounts in SE Asia that a group led by a Morian named Marayu arrived 2600 BC and established a kingdom that flourished in a land known as Rahma for 1800 years. An exiled prince from the Near East named Kambu, a variant of Old Persian and Aramaic Cambyses, sails with his party from the Arabian Sea to the northern Malay Peninsula. Supported by the first archeological sites appearing in the region of Khao Sam Kaew dating to the 5th century BC. A trader has a divine vision and wakes up to find divine instruments to take on a sea voyage. God controls the winds to lead his vessel to the Malay Peninsula. Supported by archeological evidence of the first iron-age civilization appearing in Kedah in 582 BC. The founder of Kedah is a warrior chief named Maroni. All these historical accounts date to the Book of Mormon time period and there is archeological evidence to support them, including populations with ANE DNA. How do you propose the brass plates and the Sword of Laban that was found in the stone box got from Jerusalem to the Americas in 500 BC? Is there any evidence such a voyage occurred, or was even possible? In the Asian model, Moroni gets to Western NY in the same way that Peter, James and John get to Western NY. Boat not required.
  7. Getting the treasure and text to New York by sea voyage is a problem in any model. The difference is that it would have been far easier to transport the gold plates, the Urim and Thummim, the breastplate, the sword of Laban, and the Liahona at any point between 420 AD and 1830. The technology for such a voyage did not exist in the 6th century BC, but we know that as Moroni began his wanderings, people were crossing the Pacific from the Malay Archipelago to within 2000 miles of South America. If a long sea voyage seems improbable after 420 AD, how do you propose the treasure gets to South America in 600 BC?
  8. For believers, this isn't as problematic as it seems. If there was indeed a treasure guardian named Moroni delivering a golden text from ancient Cumorah/Camorah, this model offers the best explanation of how the text and treasure were transmitted. The Book of Mormon as Terma, and Joseph Smith as Tertön The treasure text tradition is still alive in the area in this model that was known during Moroni's lifetime as Kamarupa. It is presently inhabited by the Zoram Bnei Menashe, a group of Nagas that have been formally recognized as being from the Tribe of Menasseh and Ephraim. The immortal saint that long ago buried golden texts in the minds of future treasure finders resides in a mythical land called Camara.
  9. On the question of history vs. fiction I don't have a default position. I lean towards it being history that was transmitted to Joseph directly. But as Robert mentions in the comment above yours, the English translation had to have been done a couple of centuries earlier. So it has become necessary to also identify a translator who would have been familiar with oriental languages and EmodE texts. Although he's not critical to this model, John Smith could have played that role.
  10. There's been a lot of discussion about Joseph's fascination with the treasure legends of Captain Kidd and the Comoros. What hasn't been researched is the relationship between treasure digging lore and oriental texts that were translated into English in the early 1800s. For example, the Malay Annals and the "Hikayat Iskandar Zulkarnain". As you probably know, these texts blend Biblical/Quaranic narratives with "oriental" mythologies. For example, in these texts we find the heroes seeking wisdom in Solomon's Temple, and Solomon giving orders to Garuda. What baffles me is that the Hikayat Marong Mahawongsa wasn't translated into English until after the publication of the Book of Mormon. Joseph identifying the guardian of the treasure of Camorah as Maroni was remarkable.
  11. Yes, I believe so. Or rather, we have the treasure guardian who was later named Maroni/Moroni as a naga or jinn. There's a lot of research that needs to go into supporting this claim, but it does seem clear to me that the treasure diggers in Western NY were taking their ideas from oriental sources. For example, this from an 1824 publication: The Malay annals of Marong are based on this theme. Marong himself was a Naga, but he was at the same time a descendant of Dhul-Qarnayn, the figure in Islamic tradition who is associated with either Alexander the Great, or Cyrus the Great. Additionally, there was a great deal of speculation in the 1820s about the relationship between the nagas and the nachash of the Bible. The treasure guardian of the Golden Plates was named Maroni from Camorah. In Malay Islamic tradition, Maroni was himself a Naga from Komoriyya. Joseph couldn't have picked a better combination of names.
  12. Apologies for jumping in. I don't think Hamba Tuhan was speaking to my comment about Mitchill and australasian or malay script. There's just no way to know what was written on the plates. My comment was a reference to a more detailed study that Richard Behrens has done on Samuel Mitchill's theory of australasians peopling the southern part of the American continent. Towards the end of his essay "A Nation Now Extinct" Bennet concludes: "Whether Mitchill endeavored then and there to translate what Harris brought to him is open to question. Certainly he studied the “characters” most carefully. His assertion that the characters thereon were “of a nation now extinct which he named” speaks directly to his own richly developed theories on the extinct Australasian race of ancient America, that “delicate race” destroyed by the Tartars ultimately somewhere in upstate New York not far from where Harris farmed near Palmyra. Is it any wonder that Harris returned to Palmyra confirmed and committed to assisting in the work of translating the Book of Mormon?" (source) After reading several lectures delivered by Mitchill in the early 19th century, I agree with Bennet. Whatever might have been written on the plates or the transcript that Harris had, Mitchill identified the script as genuine, and identified the nation. My hypothesis is that Mitchill believed the script to be some form of australasian. I won't go into details here, but I've reached this conclusion after reading Mitchill's writings and also the writings of CS Rafinesque, who was mentored by Mitchill.
  13. I don't know. There's quite a range of accounts of the treasure guardian (Moroni) taking different forms, and the question seems an impossible one to answer. But since the term Marong/Maroni is applied to a mortal man who was a military chief and also a preternatural being in both accounts, the model works in both cases. "Marong is a Siamese word used in their astrological or astronomical works. It is applied to a man who can by supernatural means assume any shape he pleases. A Buddhist Priest of Siam acquaints me that it is a title bestowed on a military chief - and also signifies a person who can preternaturally change his appearance" (source)
  14. The only response I could offer is that Joseph received the plates, manuscript, translation, transmission or whatever in the same way he received them in the official versions of the story: a man calling himself Moroni/Maroni delivered them to him. For me, the more important question is: who was Moroni/Maroni? The model I've proposed offers the only solution to this. The short version is that Maroni was a known "rajah" of the Indies, the founder of the historical lands I've described above. In the two decades previous to the publication of the Book of Mormon, a common hypothesis was that the aborigines of the area below Lake Eerie and Lake Ontario were Malay. This theory originated with Samuel Mitchill, the scholar who was approached by Martin Harris for his opinion on the characters copied from the Golden Plates. Samuel Mitchill supposedly identified the characters from the Golden Plates and named the extinct nation in the east that they came from. Given Mitchill's theory that the dark-skinned Malay had once battled the fair-skinned Tartars in the area a few miles east of Manchester NY, my hypothesis is that Mitchill identified the characters as being Malay. This is just the beginning of my research, but it would help explain why the Book of Mormon resembles the geography and history of the Malay Peninsula and would explain "Rajah" Maroni's appearance, as well as the appearance of the plates of Rajah Manchou 15 years later.
  15. I'll be the first to admit it is absurd. Still can't make sense of it. But somehow it fits, whereas other models don't. And more to come, stay tuned. But while you're here, can you identify any problems with the maps I've linked above? I've had several experts look at it and the internal map of the Book of Mormon fits, down to the distances, dates and names. If you have doubts, I extend a challenge to identify anything in the geography or history of Southeast Asia between 589BC and 420AD that doesn't line up with the text of the Book of Mormon. If this was a joke, it should be easy to disprove right? Go for it.
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