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Rajah Manchou

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About Rajah Manchou

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  1. I was once a Mormon, then I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, then I was a Mormon again, and then I was again a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In turn, I've stopped caring what anybody says I should say I am.
  2. The same way that Moroni did. Also the same way that John the Baptist, Peter, James and John got to North America. Some background is needed to unpack this. Jews and Christians have been speculating about the location of Biblical groups beyond the sea for centuries. A large portion of the material was drawn from accounts of Alexander's military campaigns across Persia, Afghanistan and India. In India, Alexander encountered the naked philosophers known in Greek accounts as the gymnosophists. Please read the wiki on gymnosophists To the Jews, Christians and Muslims, the descriptions of these righteous gymnosophists living beyond the Great Ganges reminded them of the Rechabites who were led by God across the waters to an island called Rahma. The Indian Sramanas described in Hellenic sources became confused with the Rechabites described in Judeo-Christian sources, and also with the Sons of Moses described in Islamic sources. Accounts of these Israelite groups were popularized through the Middle Ages, and became a source of inspiration for Columbus, who set out to find the kingdoms described. He died believing that he'd found them. Finally, by the 18th century, a popular orientalist view was that the gymnosophists were a variety of Israelite who followed Christ and migrated to America in the 5th century AD. This is where popular interpretation of Mitchill's theories on the Indians come into play. What I'm proposing is that we stop worrying about where in the Americas the Book of Mormon happened and we instead view it as a text within the well-established traditions of the Rechabites, Rahmans and Sons of Moses. The Book of Mormon claims to be nothing more than that. Elephants, horses, chariots, silk, goats, cattle, sheep, iron swords, golden plates, scimeters are no longer a problem when we view the Book of Mormon as a text among other apocryphal texts that describe Israelites who lived beyond the sea. In fact, the Book of Mormon is a surprisingly accurate historical text when we acknowledge that 6th century BC Israelites actually did inhabit islands with elephants, silk, horses, sheep, iron swords, scimeters, religious texts inscribed on golden plates etc.
  3. The Lehites depart Jerusalem around 600 BC; The Book of Mormon mentions others who departed Jerusalem at the same time [1]; Ancient Judeo-Christian texts tell us of the Rechabites who departed Jerusalem around 600 BC; Ancient and medieval accounts of the Rechabites place their abode beyond the sea, somewhere in "Greater India"; Mormon scholars like Hugh Nibley and John Welch have noted the striking similarities between the Book of Mormon and accounts of the Rechabites; The big picture is that the Book of Mormon aligns with ancient accounts of the Rechabites dwelling on their island in the sea in Greater India. With a simple paradigm shift, the Book of Mormon account is no longer anachronistic. ------ [1] In the time of Jeremiah, or shortly before, a certain Jonadab ben Rechab had led a colony of permanent settlers from Jerusalem into the wilderness, where his descendants survived through all succeeding centuries as the strange and baffling nation of the Rekhabites. What makes them baffling is their Messianic religion, which is so much like primitive Christianity in many ways that it has led some scholars to argue that those people must have been of Christian origin, though the historical evidence for their great antiquity is unquestionable. When one considers that Jonadab's project was almost contemporary (perhaps slightly prior) to Lehi's, that his name, ending in -adab, is of a type peculiar to the period and to the Book of Mormon, and that the Book of Mormon specifically states that the Lord had led other people of Jerusalem beside Lehi, and that the Rekhabite teachings are strangely like those in the Book of Mormon, one is forced to admit at very least the possibility that Lehi's exodus could have taken place in the manner described, and the certainty that other such migrations actually did take place (Hugh Nibley, Approach to the Book of Mormon, 68-69).
  4. According to Mitchell, the European groups (Finn, Dane, and Welsh) associated with the Eskimo came to the northeast around the 10th century AD. They would have encountered the Malay somewhere near Onandaga. Both groups were destroyed by the Tartars from China. Bennett's conclusion was that Mitchell certainly recognized the characters in the Anthon transcript as evidence for his theories: "Whether he tried to translate Harris’s characters on the spot is not known, but he certainly seems to have studied them carefully enough to deliver a “learned dissertation” on them and to identify them as those of “a nation now extinct which he named.” Finally and almost certainly, he saw in these characters additional evidence for his own richly developed theories on the extinct “delicate” Australasian race that had been destroyed by the more ferocious Tartars somewhere in upstate New York not far from where Harris lived in Palmyra." Bennet is suggesting that Samuel Mitchell identified the characters on the Anthon transcript as being Malay, the nation that once inhabited the Manchester/Onandaga region. This is why the angel who delivers the plates to Joseph shares names with the great warrior chief from Kedah (Burma/Malaysia/Siam), Rajah Maroni.
  5. They fit in the right time and genre just fine. The tradition of inscribing lengthy religious texts on metal plates to preserve the teachings from corruption dates to the Book of Mormon time period. An Indian text translated in the 4th century AD tells of the "School of Copper-plates", the dominant religious group on the island known as Taprobane, or Copper Island: “A hundred years after the Buddha’s demise, King Asoka was destroying Buddhism. His brother was a monk and obtained Arahatship. When [the King] was persecuting Buddhism he was a great elder. Worrying that Buddhism might be replaced by [other religions] and disappear, he had the Tripitaka engraved on copper plates and had them sent to the Lion county. Later on, King Asoka had faith in some monks and took back the Tipitaka on copper plates to circulate. This is why [it] is called the [school of copper plates]; it is the School of Elders.” In other words, the traditions of South and Southeast Asia is that the entire Buddhist canon was preserved on metal plates, as early as the 3rd century BC. This act of preserving the entire canon on metal plates was repeated during the time of King Kanishka in 2C AD. The tradition of preserving religious texts on gold plates was carried to East Asia where there are countless example of religious texts inscribed on gold plates and buried for preservation. [1] --------- [1] Buddhist Texts on Gold and Other Metals in East Asia: Preliminary Observations Peter Kornicki with T.H. Barrett Journal of Asian Humanities at Kyushu University Volume 2, Spring 2017
  6. I don't think it was uncommon at all. But help me out, did the Lehites encounter any others during the eight years they were traveling through the desert? You seem to be arguing (1) that wandering around in the desert was all too common, and then in the next breath arguing that (2) there was nobody else in the desert. According to the Book of Mormon, there were other migrations to the land, the Jaredites and the people of Zarahemla, for example. The Narrative of Zosimus suggests that people from the Old World did know of a people in a land that had been set apart for a group of Israelites.
  7. This is the passage from Nibley on the Timely and the Timeless: "In the Dead Sea Scrolls we learn of the peculiar way of life of the sectaries of the desert, whose Rekhabite tradition goes back to Lehi’s day and long before, and survives long after, as is very apparent from the 2nd Sura of the Qur’an. The people of Lehi were rooted in this tradition. When John Welch was studying at Duke University years ago, he was struck by the strong resemblance between the story of Lehi and the writing of Zosimus, a Greek of the third century AD. What would a Greek know about Lehi almost a thousand years after? Zosimus was looking for the model society of the saints, and he attempted to find it in the desert among the Rekhabites—that is the common tradition; I pointed out long ago that Lehi was in the proper sense a Rekhabite and certainly acquainted with the pious sectaries of Jeremiah 30. The writing of Zosimus shows that we are dealing with a pervasive and persistent pattern." Here, Nibley refers to the Narrative of Zosimus, a ~3rd century AD account of a Greek hermit who traveled through the desert and then crossed the great sea to India/Burma (the Land of the Rahmans) to meet the Rechabites/Rahmans. The simple response to the question of Book of Mormon historicity is that the Book of Mormon = an account of the Israelites of India, known as the Rechabites.
  8. Same group in my opinion. According to Claudius Buchanan in 1807, the Black Jews of India informed him of their brothers in colonies further east. The earliest accounts of India mention large boats capable of holding hundreds of people moving between Rahma/Zhenla and Camara as early as the 1st century AD. Hugh Nibley identifies the Lehites as Rechabites. Extant accounts of the Rechabites inform us that they were led God from Jerusalem to an island in the sea around 600 BC. According to Vladimir Braginsky, the apocryphal accounts of the Rechabites places them in Nusantara, or the Malay Peninsula. The internal geography of the Book of Mormon lines up with the geography and archeology of the Malay Peninsula. The Book of Mormon = an account of the Israelites of India, or the Rechabites.
  9. Apologies, somehow I missed your response. It is true that Hebrew was no longer taught after John Smith died, so Hyrum would have had minimal exposure. I suppose I'm just looking to strike a balance between the apologist arguments that the Smiths were ignorant farmers with no exposure at all to Hebrew language and books and maps. The ignorant Manchester farmboy and the Palmyra Library arguments don't take the Smith's Dartmouth years into account. We don't need to assume that everyone in the area had knowledge of Hebrew. My assumption is that a school with a mission to bring the Bible and Christianity to the native Americans in the frontier wilderness, as it is drawn out in Hebrew on the school's seal, would be an ideal setting for an author to generate the Book of Mormon narrative. My argument is that Dartmouth, and more broadly the Arminian and Congregationalist movements on the American frontier, provided the ideal environment for the construction of the Book of Mormon narrative. To support the argument that the collective awareness in the decades leading up to the publication of the Book of Mormon, I point to the View of the Hebrews and Manuscript Found, two books with similar themes that came from Congregationalist preachers who attended school at Dartmouth. That said, I'm not convinced the Book of Mormon was written at Dartmouth. I'm researching the relationship between Emmonite missionaries from Byfield, MA who, inspired by popular contemporary accounts of 6th century BC diaspora Jews with brass plates, sailed to Burma in the early 19th century. There are correspondences that I feel cannot be ignored. The geography matches the Book of Mormon, the toponyms are aligned, and the leading hero shares the same name. It is an extraordinary claim, and I'm only in the data collection and discussion phase. But as I've said elsewhere, I've been to the small village in Burma where these Emmonite missionaries from Byfield, MA ended up. The village church possesses a "golden book" written in unique script that was revealed to them by an angel in a white robe in the 1830s. My opinion is that the collective awareness that gave us the Book of Mormon in 1830 was embedded enough to reach this small village on the other side of the world. You're certainly not clueless, but I am confused why you are hung up on the path that lead me to the reference in Extracts from the Travels of Marquis de Chastellux in America. This being a discussion board on the Internet, I believe we all use Google and Google Books to search for phrases. I can see you likely used Google when you looked up references for Dartmouth commencements in Hebrew. I could be wrong about that, my point is that for the sake of forum discussions we're all using Google. If we were writing for publication we'd take the time to tidy up sources.
  10. Have you ever looked into the accounts from the Cochin Jews in India and the Lemba Jews in Zimbabwe? Both groups talk about a similar migration from Jerusalem to a place called Sena [1] along the same trail in the same time period. The similarities between their accounts and the Book of Mormon are striking. ----- [1] Sena was a thriving Jewish city at the time of the Babylonian empire around 500 BC, and is believed to have been dominated by Israelites who had fled Jerusalem during the Babylonian invasion.
  11. In other words, key to the Mesoamerican model is a small group of 30-50 individuals of Middle/Near Eastern descent coming into a population of millions in North America. That's a pretty big problem. Identification of the inhabitants of the islands of the sea and the American Indians as Lamanites has been discussed since the early church. There are countless statements on the relationship. Here are two of many: "I should like to address my remarks to you, our kinsmen of the isles of the sea and the Americas. Millions of you have blood relatively unmixed with gentile nations. Columbus called you `Indians,’ thinking he had reached the East Indies. Millions of you are descendants of Spaniards and Indians, and are termed mestizos, and are called after your countries, for instance: Mexicans in Mexico; Guatemalans in Guatemala; Chilianos in Chile. You Polynesians of the Pacific are called Samoan or Maori, Tahitian or Hawaiian, according to your islands. There are probably sixty million of you on the two continents and on the Pacific Islands, all related by blood ties. The Lord calls you Lamanites." - Spencer W. Kimball "The term Lamanite includes all Indians and Indian mixtures, such as the Polynesians, the Guatemalans, the Peruvians, as well as the Sioux, the Apache, the Mohawk, the Navajo, and others. It is a large group of great people...There are no blessings, of all the imaginable ones, to which you are not entitled–you, the Lamanites–when you are righteous. You are of royal blood, the children of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, and Lehi." - Spencer W. Kimball I think you're getting hung up on anachronistic terms (Malaysia, Thailand, Thai) that make the model feel foreign and distant. Something like the Island of the Sea Model would make more sense. The former inhabitants of Southeast Asia, the Malay Archipelago up the Pacific Rim across the Pacific Islands and into the Americas share the same DNA. In an unexpected way, the Book of Mormon is historically accurate and all the D&C prophesies are correct, we've just got the geography backwards.
  12. I see it differently. The Heartland and Mesoamerican models have an insurmountable problem, the Native Americans referred to as Lamanites in the D&C prophecies are verifiably of Asian descent, not Israelite. The Asian model has no problem explaining how Asians got to the borders of the Lamanites.
  13. There isn't just one New Jerusalem: Why Do the Prophets Speak of Multiple Jerusalems? We're not even entirely sure what is meant by the term New Jerusalem. Regardless, an officially recognized remnant of the Tribe of Manasseh is building a New Jerusalem in their corner of the world. If they succeed in fulfilling the spirit of the law, I'm certain it will be easy to reconcile the insignificant letters.
  14. Why would you need to scrap the 10th Article of Faith? Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built by the remnant of the Tribe of Menasseh. Some presently live in a small stretch of land between Bangladesh and Myanmar called Zoram. Zom or Zomi, is the tribal name of these people. Coincidentally, Joseph Smith claimed the original term for Zion was Zom, and he etched the word Zom on a tree growing over the cornerstone of the temple plot in Independence, Missouri.
  15. The sea voyages across the Pacific and Atlantic are a big problem for the Mesoamerican, South American and Great Lakes models. If not the biggest problems. The Asian model doesn't take for granted that sea voyages from the Arabian Sea to the Americas were possible previous to the 5th century BC. It is however certain that these migrations were possible to the Malay Archipelago, and there's evidence that three BoM-like voyages took place at the right times: Grandson of Noah named Amur leads a group called the Kumr from the Arabian Sea to the Malay Peninsula in boats resembling Noah's Ark. Supported by accounts in SE Asia that a group led by a Morian named Marayu arrived 2600 BC and established a kingdom that flourished in a land known as Rahma for 1800 years. An exiled prince from the Near East named Kambu, a variant of Old Persian and Aramaic Cambyses, sails with his party from the Arabian Sea to the northern Malay Peninsula. Supported by the first archeological sites appearing in the region of Khao Sam Kaew dating to the 5th century BC. A trader has a divine vision and wakes up to find divine instruments to take on a sea voyage. God controls the winds to lead his vessel to the Malay Peninsula. Supported by archeological evidence of the first iron-age civilization appearing in Kedah in 582 BC. The founder of Kedah is a warrior chief named Maroni. All these historical accounts date to the Book of Mormon time period and there is archeological evidence to support them, including populations with ANE DNA. How do you propose the brass plates and the Sword of Laban that was found in the stone box got from Jerusalem to the Americas in 500 BC? Is there any evidence such a voyage occurred, or was even possible? In the Asian model, Moroni gets to Western NY in the same way that Peter, James and John get to Western NY. Boat not required.
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