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Rajah Manchou

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About Rajah Manchou

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    Separates Water & Dry Land

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  1. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    Haven't had much time lately, but working on it. Dale Broadhurst points out that Solomon Spaulding's Lobaska character hints at familiarity with accounts of the Nephtalites or White Huns, and that this character originates in a region identified on 18th century maps as Fousang. Deguignes identifies Fousang as an Egyptian/Chinese colony in America. Since Spaulding seems to be familiar with these accounts, it is probable that these texts were available, or were a topic of discussion. Its important to consider that several witnesses to Spaulding's manuscript stated that the first part of his manuscript placed the Nephites and Lamanites in Asia, and after many wars they then sailed across the Bering Strait to America. If you've read my comments in other threads I believe Asia is also the original setting for the Book of Lehi and it was later redacted to be an account of the former inhabitants of the Americas and the source from whence they sprang. There clearly was some catalyst for Book of Mormon type stories at Dartmouth in the late 18th century. View of the Hebrews and Manuscript Found have both been compared to the Book of Mormon and have been proposed as influences on the author/translator. What has been overlooked is that both the authors were students of John Smith at Dartmouth and it is more likely that he was the influence on both these books. If John Smith did influence Ethan Smith and Solomon Spaulding to write their Book of Mormon type stories about Hebrew and Roman migrations to the Americas, then it is evident that Dartmouth in the late 18th century was the ideal environment for the translation of the Book of Mormon. It certainly would be interesting to look at John Smith's writings to see if there are EmodE elements, but such a study is beyond me. His lectures are available, and have been examined by at least one Mormon studies scholar who did find parallels with Mormon doctrine. Dartmouth Arminianism And Its Impact on Hyrum Smith And the Smith Family
  2. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    A good starting point for this material is Joseph Deguignes' five volume work called the General History of the Huns, Turks, Mongols and Other Tartars (1754). Deguignes maintained that the civilizations of Asia (the Huns were also known as Nephtalites) were Egyptian colonies and that Asian scripts were a sort of reformed Egyptian. Variations of this theory go back to to the 1600s and is found in the writings of Athanasius Kircher, a Jesuit scholar who would have been known to an orientalist like John Smith. Both Deguignes and Kircher held that the civilizations of the Americas, including Mesoamerica, also had Egyptian ties. John Smith would have had access to their writings as he was the Dartmouth librarian and also ran his own bookshop in Hanover. Also important is Nibley's The World of the Jaredites, in particular the chapters "Jared on the Steppes" and "Early Asiatic and Jaredite Civilizations". Nibley places the Jaredites in the camp of Central Asian nomads. What year/decade would you say Early modern English would have become obsolete? The usage of vocabulary and phrases in the BOM fits the 1530s-1730s. John Smith was born in 1752. He was a Biblical scholar and theologian and would have had access to several EmodE texts. That's certainly true. The Book of Mormon is indeed a fascinating text, and a real mystery. I wish we had more material to work with.
  3. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    Homonyms are common. I've presented a few here before (eg. Moroni, Cumorah, Comron, Judea, Mulek, Deseret, Ramah, even Panchi) from pre-19th century texts that match up with a specific limited geography that matches the Book of Mormon internal geography. The response to these matches has been that it is simply a coincidence. Regardless, for every Egyptianism in the Book of Mormon, I can find an equal Egyptianism in texts that would have been known to an 18th century orientalist like John Smith. Why would Solomon Spaulding write Manuscript Found? Why would Ethan Smith write View of the Hebrews? According to Ethan Smith's grandson, a Rev. Dr. Smith at Dartmouth did write a text: "Solomon Spaulding was a warm admirer of Dr. Smith and when a young man studied under his tuition. He became interested in his theories regarding the settlement of America, and in return Dr. Smith took the young student into his confidence and granted him a perusal of his unpublished book. Spaulding was deeply impressed with the truth of this theory and pursued his investigations even farther than Dr. Smith had ventured. Taking the latter's views as expressed in his book Spaulding some years later wrote his famous "Manuscript Found," which afterward fell into the hands of Joe Smith and was reconstructed into the Book of Mormon. Indeed, it is not at all unlikely that Dr. Smith's original manuscript, which it is said Spaulding had in his possession, suffered a similar fate. At any rate it has never been seen since." So at least one other person has identified the role a Dr. Smith at Dartmouth played in the authoring of Manuscript Found and the Book of Mormon. It's always been assumed that Ethan S. Smith was speaking of Ethan Smith, the author of View of the Hebrews. This is unlikely as Solomon Spaulding was older than Ethan Smith and never studied under Ethan Smith. Solomon Spaulding was an admirer of Dr. John Smith, the cousin of Joseph Smith Sr's father and the author of the Dartmouth curriculum as known to Ethan Smith, Solomon Spaulding, Hyrum Smith and three of Solomon Spaulding's nephews. Dr. John Smith also wrote a series of theological lectures and Hebrew and Chaldee grammar books. I propose he also wrote the Book of Lehi which was given to Solomon Spaulding and ended up with one of Spaulding's nephews at Dartmouth while Hyrum Smith was in attendance.
  4. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    John Smith: Died in 1809, Joseph Smith lived 10-20 miles away. Grotius: Died in 1645, 160 years before Joseph Smith was born 3700 miles away. Moroni: Last seen around 421 AD in Mexico, 1384 years before Joseph Smith was born 2200 miles away. John Smith would have been fully capable of writing the Book of Mormon. Two of his students at Dartmouth wrote texts that resemble the Book of Mormon in many ways. What Egyptian names in the Book of Mormon would not have been known to John Smith, or one of his students, at Dartmouth? I know of Nephi, which was a name that John Smith would have learned about in readings of Kircher, who wrote of an Egyptian Jew named Nephi. He also would have learned about Kircher's theory that Egyptian/Hebrew priests sailed east with altered Egyptian hieroglyphs in 600 BC. These were fairly common ideas among Orientalists like John Smith in the 17th and 18th centuries. Not that I know. From the OP: "the usage of vocabulary and phrases in the BOM fits the 1530s-1730s" and "every word in the BOM original text had entered the English language by 1730". If there are phrases in the Book of Mormon dating to 1730 at the latest, then we can't expect the author/translator to have lived before that. John Smith was born in 1752. Unless he was trying to imitate Early Modern English.
  5. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    No idea who wrote the Book of Mormon, but John Smith was a close relative of Joseph Smith Sr. and Lucy Mack. He was born in 1750s. He spoke Latin, Hebrew and Chaldee. He was an Arminian preacher well versed in the Old Testament. He taught Solomon Spaulding and Ethan Smith. He lived 10 miles from Joseph Smith Jr. Which is the most probable explanation for the Hebraisms in the Book of Mormon: (1) Egyptian-Hebrew prophets in America, (2) a Dutch lawyer, (3) a Smith who spoke Hebrew and Chaldee. If we are looking for the source of EmodE and Hebraisms/Egyptianisms in the Book of Mormon, we can't easily ignore the Dartmouth library and its librarian, John Smith.
  6. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    Dr. John Smith, a cousin of Asael Smith, taught Latin, Hebrew and Chaldee at Dartmouth around 10-15 miles from the home of Joseph Smith Sr. Here are scans of his Hebrew and Chaldee Grammar manuscript: Hebrew and Chaldee Grammar Manuscript A Hebrew and Chaldee Grammar Manuscript B Wouldn't John Smith and the Dartmouth library (the center of Hebrew studies in America at the time) be the most probable source of the Hebraisms in the Book of Mormon?
  7. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    Let's not forget about Uncle John, who lived 15 miles from the Smith home and who knew Hebrew and Chaldaic and wrote grammar books for both. A close relative of both Joseph Smith and Lucy Mack was fully capable of understanding Helaman 13:10's use of visit. Wouldn't he be the most probable influence? John Smith clearly inspired the narratives of two similar texts, Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews and Solomon Spaulding's Manuscript Found. He was an Arminian. What reasons do we have for looking beyond Dartmouth, the center of Hebrew studies, in late 18th century America?
  8. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    The Irish historian who wrote the 17th century text found by Stephen Mack's business partner, also wrote a pseudo-history of Ireland that was found in a cave in New York, 6 years before the Book of Mormon was published. Two 17th century texts (one found under a house, another in a New York cave) Both written in a mysterious script by an author famous for his historical accounts describing migrations of mythological tribes, some from Egypt and the Middle East.
  9. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    @Physics Guy This happened at least once. Stephen Mack would have known of the Detroit Manuscript, an unrecognizable Early Modern text that was found by Colonel Edwards, a business partner of Stephen Mack. The text attracted much attention because it was written in a mysterious script that some found to be "Phoenician-like". The script also resembled most, if not all, of the characters on the Anthon Transcript. It is highly probable that the Smiths would have known about this ancient "Bible", and even possible they saw the script. Turns out the text was written by a 17th century historian who also wrote pseudo-histories of the mythological kings of Ireland based on much earlier chronicles of Ireland, Scotland and Wales. If it was possible for Stephen Mack's business partner to discover a 17th century history written in a mysterious script that tells of ancient Egyptians and Israelites sailing around the world to an island in the sea, it would also be possible for the Smiths to discover a 17th century history written in a mysterious script of ancient Egyptians and Israelites sailing to an island in the sea. http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/2000s/2001RBSt.htm
  10. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    Somewhat off topic, but I found this interesting article the other day likely written by Jane Leade's son-in-law. It's a very 'Tavesian' spin on terrestrial vs. celestial gold: A Conference betwixt Philochrysus and Philadelphus On the Philadelphian Gold "There are also Celestial Bodies (of a spiritual and heavenly property) and Bodies Terrestrial (of a material and earthly property as common gold but the Glory of the Celestial is one, and the glory of the Terrestrial is another; that is, the glory of the Philadelphian Gold differs from the glory of the Peruvian, as far as heaven is from Earth." I can see how someone familiar with the writings of the Philadelphians and 17th century theosophists could have looked at a heap of hammered tin and perceived them to be an ancient golden record.
  11. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    It wasn't uncommon for 17th century Irish and Scottish historians to mix history and mythology to strengthen national identity. I'm reminded of Geoffrey Keating's History of Ireland and Hector Boece’s Scottorum Historiae: "Keating’s history was written in the context of other national histories that were in circulation in early modern Europe. Hector Boece’s Scottorum Historiae (Paris 1527) was one of the works Keating had in mind when he said that he wished Ireland to have a national history such as other nations have. Boece’s history had as its framework a list of Scottish kings and depicted the Scottish people as loyal Christians never veering from the true faith. Boece’s narratives of war and defence were a mechanism through which national identity was delineated and defined. The king was depicted as a central symbol of that identity. Boece’s work is very closely paralleled by Keating’s choice of the succession of kings of Ireland as the framework around which the Foras Feasa was constructed." (source) The Smiths may have been aware of their genetic links to the great (Mor) King Niall, and the Book of Mormon was an attempt at doing for America what Keating did for Ireland and Boece did for Scotland, namely establishing a succession of Christian kings in the New World. The Detroit Manuscript that surfaced in 1823 was a Keating text written in a Latin shorthand that some have compared to the Anthon Transcript. Pages of the Detroit Manuscript were sent to Samuel Mitchell in 1823. Just a few years later, Martin Harris would take the Anthon Transcript to Samuel Mitchill. Its been mentioned elsewhere that you've found similarities between the Book of Mormon and English chronicles. Have you look at EmodE translations of related Irish and Scottish chronicles?
  12. Rajah Manchou

    Slippery Treasures and EModE

    It was based on his reading of the Book of Mormon.
  13. Rajah Manchou

    Slippery Treasures and EModE

    Isn't the idea that the Book of Mormon is meant to explain how the mysterious buried treasures end up in the hills that the diggers were digging up? I'm reminded of Joseph Smith Sr's comment in the Lapham interviews. This is how Joseph Smith Sr. interpreted the Book of Mormon account of the Lehites arriving in the Promise Land: "After sailing a long time, [the Lehites] came to land, went on shore, and thence they traveled through boundless forests, until, at length, they came to a country where there were a great many lakes; which country had once been settled by a very large race of men, who were very rich, having a great deal of money. From some unknown cause, this nation had become extinct; "but that money," said Smith, "is here, now, every dollar of it." Those men buried their wonderful treasures in these cursed hills. But we'll find it! Of course they could have found an EmodE text describing cursed slippery treasures, and that motivated them to dig. Or they could have written cursed slippery treasures into the Book of Mormon to justify their digging. Either way, they intended to find those treasures.
  14. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    None of these is difficult to do.
  15. Rajah Manchou

    Skousen & Carmack Lecture Take Aways

    It's already happened. I know a good number of Christians who profess a belief in Christ and follow his teachings, but have no opinion on whether or not he was literally resurrected. Is a belief in angels and seerstones required to have a testimony of the Book of Mormon? Would more people accept the teachings within the Book of Mormon if it wasn't inextricably linked to the account of Joseph Smith seeing the letters glowing on a rock in a hat? For me, the account of the origins of the Book of Mormon (a narrative that is not from the Book of Mormon itself) is the hardest pill to swallow. I have no concerns about the content of the Book of Mormon, its the story about where it came from that I can't get a handle on.
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